Tue 17 Jun 2008
“ Apko kia pata, ke humara dil apke liye kitna rota hai. Jab aap logo ko koi taklif hota hai to humain lagta hain k taklif humain ho raha hai. Bohot pyar karte hai hum aap se. alag ho gaye to kya hua. Bhai to bhai hota hai. Bangladeshi to humare bhai hai.”
Rafe, 60-something, Bus-driver, Lahore
I’ve met people from different parts of the world and traveled to a few places myself. But never, not once, in any of my interactions or travels, have I ever come across a race of people who have made me feel so proud of my nationality: Bangladeshi. But then, I visited Pakistan. I was born in an independent Bangladesh. I’ve never had to struggle to get my voice heard, I was allowed to vote (till quite recently) and I’m allowed to speak my mind. Until my trip to Pakistan, I had never realized how precious all these things are. I had always regarded Pakistan, a distant country, as a bitter chapter in our history. But only after meeting the people did I realize how close we could be and how much my heritage means to them. Never before have I received so much respect for just being Bangladeshi.
Till quite recently, I had never visited Pakistan. Neither had my parents. Since the only Pakistanis I’d met belonged to the educated bourgeoisie class, I had assumed that it was only this select lot who were aware of the atrocities committed in 1971. I had always believed that most Pakistanis believed that Bangladeshis were Kafirs who had let India take them over and regarded us with disdain. Don’t ask me why I thought all of this or what explanation I have for my notions. My notions had stemmed from the prevalent attitude of our pro-liberation buddhijibis, who have, through their own glorifications of our War of Liberation, somehow equated patriotism as anti-Pakistani feeling and instilled that in some of us. In fact, I still know people who think that to be a true patriot you would have to hate Pakistan, with all its institutions and people. Our elders in Bangladesh, somehow always let us think that Pakistanis don’t care about Bangladesh. I’m not blaming them for my ill-conceived ideas. I was partly to blame for judging a whole race simply on the basis of the half-truths I had heard. I am not proud of what I thought. But my recent trip to Pakistan has made me feel proud of who I am and I am proud of my newly acquired views. Though I think that I now face the threat of being termed a ‘paki-lover’ or ‘Rajakar’, I am writing this because I think that our generation needs to know the other side of the story.
To be perfectly honest, upon our arrival at Islamabad, since the very first people we had met were bureaucrats, I didn’t buy into the whole “Pakistani-Bangladeshi bhai bhai” ideology they seemed to desperately convey to us. To me it seemed too forceful, too elaborate and too far removed from what we in Bangladesh have been led to believe about Pakistani attitude towards Bangladesh. If every shop-keeper, hotel-boy, porter, flight-attendant, bus-driver and almost everyone else I had met hadn’t echoed the same sentiments, I probably never would’ve believed that Pakistani people actually believe that we are still their brothers and they love us. It’s love that is rooted in our shared history, in our present day struggles to make our mark in this world, our efforts to rise above poverty and frustration at watching our neighbors grow at exponential rates as we combat the demons of corruption and bad governance.
“There are so many things we need to learn from Bangladesh. In fact, I personally think that your Caretaker Government system is very effective and we’re trying to emulate that”, an Additional Secretary told the ten-member media delegation from Bangladesh. Nothing was said, but their admiration for our achievements, including in establishing democracy and keeping it for 15 years, was apparent. In Karachi, an official of the Press Information Department under their Ministry of Information regaled the success of our homegrown micro-credit formula and it’s award-winning success. As far as the bureaucracy of Pakistan was concerned, everywhere we went we were greeted by praise and accolade. Even with 106 licensed private TV channels and 60 on-air channels, the Government of Pakistan marveled at how the journalists in Bangladesh are better trained and more sensitized. In a country where GEO News was closed down for violating State of Emergency rules, the Bangladeshi media received accolade from the Pakistani media for the courage demonstrated and the torture survived. In a media world now free of ‘press advise’ from intelligence agencies or foreign ministries, they marveled at the openness of our media. Peshawar Press Club gave the media delegates a reception and Express News threw a dinner. I am told that this is commonplace for all delegates from Bangladesh visiting Pakistan. But it most certainly wasn’t commonplace for me. No one had ever told me that this is how much respect these people have for us. All I have learnt from the learned, well-versed editors of our progressive newspapers is that Pakistan, the monsters who had killed our people in 1971 is now a failed nation. They forgot to mention the people of Pakistan, the warmth and hospitality they extend to all visiting Bangladeshis and the love and respect they still have for us. They never taught us how to help them or how to become friends with Pakistanis. Ulta, this was frowned upon. We weren’t told about how much they crave our friendship.
I had always believed that the atrocities committed in1971 by the Pakistani Military Hanadar Bahini, the genocide and the rapes would be a taboo topic for us in Pakistan. Taboo not just on the account us being invited by the Pakistan Government, but also because I had believed the Pakistani version of the events of 1971 to be different from ours. Therefore, you can imagine my shock when everyone I met mentioned our Liberation War (mind you, not the “Fall of Dhaka”) as ‘mistakes made by us in 1971, that shouldn’t have happened and we wish they hadn’t happened’. Rafe chacha, the man who drove our bus said to me, ‘beta, Bhutto ne jo kia, bohot galat kia. Mujhe to ootni talim bhi nahi hai, par itna to mujhe bhi pata hai’. Roughly translated, he meant that despite his lack of formal education, even he was aware of the atrocities committed by Bhutto (not just Yahya Khan, the executioner, but also the dictator) in 1971. Later on, he even explained to me how now that all of Pakistan is racially divided; they understand how Bangladesh must have felt. Rafe chacha even said to me how the people of Pakistan feel that political leadership in Bangladesh is much stronger than in Pakistan. ‘ Benazir Bhutto jo thi, wo bhi zamindar ki beti thi. Oon ko kia pata k 3 din se mere ghar mei atta nahi hai. Aap k muluk mei to kitne acche admi hai, leaders hai. Humai aaj take k bhi sahi admi nahi mila. Aap ka jo dr.yunus hai, un ho ne garib o k barei mei socha, kuch kia. Humare yaha ek bhi aisa admi nahi mila’, he remorses. He said he echoed the sentiments of the rural working class who are always struggling to survive the repeated onslaughts of the political turmoil in the country. The ups and downs of power-play-who wins the elections or who looses, really never affects the common man. He knows that politics is not for him. He knows regardless of who wins the election, if there ever is one, at the end, he looses. Successive regimes have only helped to widen the rich and poor divide and people like Rafe chacha seek a program like micro-credit to improve their financial conditions. There are millions like Rafe chacha who would benefit from the models developed by our NGOs and civil society organizations that help the grassroots people. Even a PID official admitted that Sheikh Hasina is his favorite South Asian leader because she stands for the common man. The sectarian violence, the non-homogenous population and the increasing rich and poor divide has helped people like Rafe chacha and the likes of him realize and empathize with our plights pre-71. We, as Bangladeshis, as an independent, sovereign nation, with our certain successful social organization models are now in the capacity to help them and save them from the fate we had suffered.
“Baji aap Bangladesh se hai? Arre kia baat hai. Phir to aap hamare mehman hai. Aap ko kia pilau? Paani yia Cola? Aap meri puri dukan le jao koi masla nahi. Mehman hai aap humare’. I got tired of hearing these lines. I heard the same lines in Islamabad, in Murree, in Karachi and even in Peshawar. A pukhtun shopkeeper abandoned his shop in the evening, in a jomjomat bazaar just to show a few lost Bangladeshi journalists the way to another bazaar. In fact, the Pathans made these guys have dinner with them, saying that Bangladeshis were not just guests but brothers.I have never received so much love and respect anywhere else in the world, for simply being Bangladeshi. Everywhere I went, everyone I met, somehow managed to show this chit of a Bangladeshi girl, with her uncovered head and bare arms, an amazing display of camaraderie and respect. I really don’t know what I have in common with the man from Waziristan who dragged my luggage across the streets of Saddar in Peshawar or the teachers of Peshawar University who were going berserk trying to find an old picture of my grandfather which could’ve been anywhere in Pakistan. They didn’t have to do any of that. They are not answerable to any government, theirs or mine. They didn’t know me. They belong to a different nation, a different culture and an altogether different world. But somehow, they were able to relate to me before I could relate to them. They called me a sister even before I would consider them friends. They made the first move, they extended their hand of friendship and their love and hospitality. They gave me love because they believed that their leaders had wronged us in ’71, but we have survived and grown stronger, and more successful than them. We have greater literacy rates and more female participation in all sections of the socio-economic system. From Islamabad to Peshawar and in Karachi, all they gave us was love and respect and all they wanted from us was knowledge. They humbly expressed remorse for 1971 for the actions of the Pakistani military. In every action of theirs, I saw a call for help and solidarity. I felt that this nation, once so known to our forefathers, now completely alien to us, needs us to cooperate with them, help them up, just like one brother (even an estranged one) would help another. They made me feel strong and powerful. They made me feel proud of our achievements—all the things that we take for granted at home. This wasn’t the kind of pride you feel when you defeat another team in cricket or when you realize someone else is worse off than you. This was the first time in my life a foreign country and people, by their own good actions, had made me feel so proud of my Bangladeshi heritage.
In war-ravaged NWFP, where the local government is still struggling to accommodate the refugees, ensure minimum security and attain a minimum standard of living for its entire populace, we were perhaps best received. The governor of NWFP, Mr. Owais Ghani only reinstated Pakistan’s new attitude towards Bangladesh, ‘Let us not be prisoners of our past. Let us learn from our past and now look forward’.
In my humble opinion and still limited purview of the world, I feel that Bangladesh and our hard-earned independence have been vindicated. We have proven to Pakistan, home to our military oppressors and bloodthirsty dictator of 1971, that we have survived and we’ve only gotten better. Now, it’s time to show them just strong we are by sharing some of our strengths with them and helping them out in their struggles.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If we now close our doors to Pakistan, we will be shutting out a friend. The people of Pakistan have nothing but respect for Bangladesh. They want to learn. They want to know. But what will be our call? Will we play into the hands of those who have used the sentiments of 1971 to progress their own vested interests or should we promote our inherently peaceful and progressive way of life to a nation that looks up at us with hope and an offer of friendship. Again, at the risk of being labeled, I dare suggest that perhaps, it’s time to call truce and move on. We will never forget 1971, but then taking pride in our history should not be analogous to hating the people of another country, who were also victims of their circumstances and military oppressors.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Its nothing wrong to offer a friendship, but must be based on as ‘two separated independent nation’ not like as indian dadagiri.
June 17th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
I don’t think Fariha means friendhsip between states as much as friendship between the people. We need to get rid of the perception that every Pakistani looks down upon us and that we should automatically distrust every Pakistani. Her article has clearly proven this to be a wrong attitudde held by many of us.
The 71 war was waged by Paki govt, not Paki people. They couldn’t do anything to stop it just as the Americans haven’t been able to do anything to stop Bush in Iraq.
On another note, I find it very sad and ironic that many of us are over-sensitive about 71 and jump at any chance to denounce Pakistanis (the innocent ones) but then so many of us easily forget 71 and readily vote for rajakars (the guilty ones) in our govt.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
#1
friendship was offered to me unconditionally and i’m sure if you were in my shoes, they would’ve offered you the same.
this isn’t friendship between governments, but between people. ‘dadagiri’ or ’strings attached’ don’t come into play here.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
# 2
I know what you mean. The same people who denounce Pakistan have no issues buying Pakistani products though. They just have issues about the product makers– people they really know nothing about.
I know females who hate Pakistanis, but love Chikan fabrics and Pakistani sandals. But mention befriending a Pakistani and the standard reply is ‘NO WAY!! Have you forgotten ‘71!’
June 17th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
It’s nice to know that a Bangladeshi felt good in Pakistan. In Pakistan nobody hates Bangladeshis and we too blame our army and our feudal politicians for what ever happened overthere. I too have been to Bangladesh in 2003. However I would like to differ with the author on the fact that Pakistan in very bad shape. I do agree that Pak is going though troubled times but situation is not as bad as ppl percive it to be, however the media is hellbound on showing Pakistan as a terrorist country and a failed state (i guess this is what the ppl want to percieve about pakistan and dont whant to accept anything else). I think that overall the social condition of both Pak and Bangladesh are more or less the same. Secondly the writer has tried to give an impression that a multi cultural country can’t survive. This can be only true if all the regions of the country are not given their due rights. If all are treated equally then a multi cultural country can easily survive.
June 17th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
“The 71 war was waged by Paki govt, not Paki people. They couldn’t do anything to stop it just as the Americans haven’t been able to do anything to stop Bush in Iraq.”
Did they try to stop it?
[A stream of questions that come to my mind follows. Perhaps the questions below will help us think of this from a different angle and connect to us in the current context vis-a-vis CHT. Unfortunately, I can't answer even the more empirical of the questions I raise (e.g. "were there protests?" - couldn't find any through a few quick google searches.) Please share if you do have more information.]
I wonder how much awareness there was amongst the Pakistani people in 1971 of what was happening in the East. Were there protests? Any attempts at trying to influence government policy?
If the majority of the people simply didn’t know, did the more informed sections of the society try to find out and publicize what was happening? Did they have a responsibility to do so?
Can we hold the Pakistani people at least partially responsible for the actions of their government if they did not even try to influence government policy in 1971?
The general question is - can the population, or at least the sections of the society who are aware of a government perpetrated injustice, be held responsible for inaction?
Can we be held responsible for anything our government may be doing in CHT? [xref the recent khujeci_tomai posting on Kalpana Chakma].
[While I found no hard data, here are a few interesting links:
1) At least the indomitable Eqbal Ahmed protested: (from http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2006/08/index.html)
One measure of Eqbal's unwavering integrity and unerring moral compass is that in April of 1971, during his trial on these trumped up conspiracy charges, he took note of the worsening situation in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), and the Pakistani army's shameful atrocities there. At a time when hardly any other Pakistani raised a voice in protest, and under all that personal stress, Eqbal took the time to write a "Letter to a Pakistani Diplomat" which is included in Selected Writings. After laying out a seven-point argument for why the Pakistani government's actions would only end in disastrous secession (which, of course, they did within the year), he writes:
"I know that I shall be condemned for my position. For someone who is facing a serious trial in America, it is not easy to confront one's own government. Yet it is not possible for me to oppose American crimes in Southeast Asia or Indian occupation of Kashmir while accepting the crimes that my government is committing against the people of East Pakistan. Although I mourn the death of Biharis by Bengali vigilantes and condemn the irresponsibilities of the Awami League, I am not willing to equate their actions with that of the government and the criminal acts of an organized, professional army."
2) "In protest of their government's suppression of the Bangladesh movement, Pakistani diplomats in Switzerland, India, and Japan resign."
http://www.dhaka-bd.com/categories/History_Culture.htm
]
June 17th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Well I m a Pakistani who belongs to pôst 1971 generation.I have never met anyone who was there when Dhaka fell, n he or she did not weep.Infact all of that u experienced in Pakistan stems from that deep sense of sorrow at the happenings of 1971.
Its a bit amusing to see that this treatment n generosity amazed u.I m proud to say that this is our national character.
June 17th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
The common people of South Asia (or in previously more open and less PC times known as the Indian Subcontinent) have always has much more clarity and sense of brother-hood than the so-called educated upper & middle classes of the region. These elites & middle classes have led us to false wars, ethnic conflict, with their vanity & greed couched in language of jingoistic nationalism and religious sectarianism.
June 17th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
to # 6:
This is part of Fariha’s reply to a comment on this writeup in Facebook. Should answer your question, “Did they try to stop it?”
“You will be surprised to know that there are many many Pakistanis who protested against the genocided of ‘71. Some were beated up by the military. Some were jailed. Others were shut up by threats. But then, the regime never expected to be superceded by technology and today, all Pakistanis are aware of what their military and Bhutto did to us in ‘71 and feel remorse from the very bottom of their hearts.”
Also, instead of worring about blaming innocent Pakistani people (majority of whom did not know the facts, were mislead or shut down by military), you REALLY should be more concerned about why convicted rajakars are not only running free, but actually elected by US into OUR govt. Put the blame where it is due: The guilty rajakars, who are our own Bangladeshi “brothers”.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Fariha,
I am ready to accept as friend any Pakistani who genuinely apologises for what Pakistan did in 1971.
Otherwise, for any Bangladeshi who tries to suck up to the Pakistanis….i’m sorry, but it’s still “tui Razakaar” for me.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Bangu (10),
So do you also expect every German to apologize to every Jew before they can be friends? I’m an American, should I also apologize to the Iraqi mother who lost her son to US bullets before I can be friends with another Iraqi? Do you see how ridiculous it sounds?
Only the guilty should apologize and should be put on trial, that INCLUDES our own Bangladeshi rajakars. We cannot and should not expect a group of people (many born AFTER 71) to apologize for something they had no hand in, did not know about and could not stop. Those that were against did protest and TRY to stop it in whatever way they could.
June 18th, 2008 at 2:31 am
#6
I don’t think Pakistan is a failed nation. Though I agree with you; some people would rather have us think that. Just like they would about Bangladesh. I think Pakistan has immense potential.
I think you’ve misunderstood my representation of the struggles of the Pakistani people. I didn’t think the struggle for between the races. I think the divide is basically between the ruling class and working class. The ruling class is mostly Punjabi or Sindhi (as I have been led to believe). The multi-cultarity just makes it all the more difficult.
I have interacted with a lot of wonderful people in your country. I had hoped to just share their story without passing any judgement.
June 18th, 2008 at 2:40 am
#7
Excuse me! Dhaka did not ‘fall’. Bangladesh gained independence.
#6
I have met at least two people who’ve given me first hand accounts of their protests in 1971.
Human rights activist, Asma Jahangir’s father was jailed for 9 months in ‘71 for showing support for an independent Bangladesh.
Dr.Qais Aslam of Lahore College, back then a university student, took out rallies with his friends to protest the atrocities being committed by their army in Bangladesh.They were all beaten up and thrown in jail.
The reason no one printed anything about it is similar to why the W.Pakistan media did not write about teh genocides. The govt controlled information. If people have no access to information, they don’t know what’s going on; then they can’t protest. Similarly, those who did protest, their voices were conveniently silenced.
As to why you dont find google links now: A university student of 1971 would now have to be at least 50. How many 50 year olds in BD have access to internet? How many can write blogs? My father can barely use email!
#10
Exactly! Rajakars are not Pakistanis. They are Bangladeshis. They are the ones, who even after our independence would rather see us go back to 47-70. We can’t ‘hate’ pakistanis and then elect rajakars as our leaders. Our leaders can not keep encouraging anti-Pk sentiments in us and keep striking deals with Rajakars.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:00 am
At first I would like to thank the writer for such a wonderful article.But I humbly differ in some points:
// The people of Pakistan have nothing but respect for Bangladesh.//
My experience with Pakistanis in fact differ very much from the writer.I have found dozens of Pakistanis saying that our war of Independence was nothing but a conspiracy of India and we are still a satellite state of them(Indians).Even in many Facebook groups they try to post the same views.And they also believe that Bangladesh is actually a fish-eating coward nation who would have been better off with their nuclear-weapon-owning Western Counterparts.
And it is also true that their Government did not apologize formally.
Yes, I have no grudge against the common Pakistanis who actually respect us(like the people experienced by Writer).
But in the case of those Pakistanis experienced by me(and trust me they are not less in number),its still THE-HELL-WITH-THEM.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:22 am
#13
I know the group of people you’re talking about. I’ve met them here in Dhaka and abroad. But during my first trip to PK, I avoided them like plague. They are the elites of Pakistans. They represent people like the late Benazir Bhutto, who till the time of her death felt that we were the idiots. If you’re ever in PK again, I would urge you to step out of this circle, hit the bazaars and meet the ‘real’ people. These elites don’t represnt PK anymore than our ruling ’susheels’ represent BD. My attitude towards these elites living in the bubble-zone is the same as yours
As for the formal apology; I differ with you. Gen.Musharraf, the head of the army, during his BD visit went to visit the SritiShoudh in Savaar and expressed regret and remorse. 51 civil society reps from Bangaldesh sent us a signed petition ‘apologising’ for the atrocities of 1971. May be it wasn’t enough for all, but after I saw how the people of Pakistan really feel, it was enough for me
If we accept PK’s hand in friendship now, may be the next generation of PAKISTANIS would read about the true events of 1971 in their own history books, not just from us.
Yes it definitely would’ve helped if Benazir had at least once expressed some sadness or shown some remorse. But like I said, we should hold people like her to be the representation of the common people, who feel nothing but regret and remorse.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:25 am
*51 civil society reps from Pakistan sent us a signed petition ‘apologising’ for the atrocities of 1971.
Sorry, not BD
June 18th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Of course the Pakis will love us. They robbed us from 1947 till 1971. They denied us our cultural, economic, social, and political rights. All economic indicators dueing that period will show that we were being exploited by the Pakis. Of course, they were better off having us as a part of their state. And of course the average Paki does not hold any grudges against a Bangladeshi. How many of their sons did we kill? How did be rob them?
If they are such good brothers of ours, why did they commit genocide and kill lacs of their “bothers” and rape their “sisters” in 1971?
As for a German apologising to a Jew…please let’s not even compare our situation. The Germans have been made to pay thier dues for the atrocities commited in WWII. More importantly there has been war crime tribunals to punish the perpetrators of the war crimes. How may Paki soldier or general has been punished for the international crimes committed in 1971?
And as for how the Iraqis feel about the USA? Please let us not presume that an average Iraqi would want to think of an American as his “brother”.
Please go and read up on your history before you try and promote Pakistan.
Joy Bangla…
June 18th, 2008 at 7:34 am
#17 what you mean! are you showing too much love for Bangladeshi or are you like to show too much hate against pakistan.
British ruled Bangladesh, last 150 years… should we continue to hate them or should we sit for a friendship as ‘two independent nation’
Next, in 1971, its openly true USA support Pakistan, then it means USA must be considered as an enemy as Pakistan, then why BD people are feeling to make their 2nd home land at USA.
There is nothing wrong for a friendship between two country in terms of political expansion, but we must keep in mind ‘not with India as DATAgiri’ … India is not our DATA,
Bangladesh Jindabad
June 18th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I think discussing 1971 we tend to forget that thousands of innocent non-Bengalis (not all of them were even Biharis, like children of Prof. Syed A. Kazmi of Rajshahi Government College who came from UP, as the name suggests.)were massacred and raped. No one ever raised this issue, but our Constitution gave an indemnity to the victors for such actions stipulating a time frame.
International War Crime Tribunal takes account of actions of both Serbians and Kosovars.We should watch our words. Immotion here may blurr the legal context, if looking for international intervention on the events of 1971.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:04 am
#17
No one here is promoting Pakistan.
All I said is that there is no point in hating the common, rather under-privileged people of Pakistan for the sins that were not committed by the PAK army. The poor people didn’t loot us. The ruling class did.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Bangu
Food for thought
http://www.bt.com.bn/en/analysis/2008/01/27/towards_a_new_pakistan
June 18th, 2008 at 9:58 am
but who, exactly, in bangladesh does hate pakistan, the way you suggest? i would suggest that this is a fairly minority sentiment in the country.
certainly, bangladeshis in general are far more anti-indian than they are anti-pakistani. for instance, when pakistan plays india in cricket, who do most bangladeshis support?
so, i think your basic premise is a little off.
as for the fact that many pakistanis have nothing but regret for the atrocities of 1971 and are filled with fellow feeling for bangladeshis, i have also found this to be true in my interactions. no argument there.
but, of course, the opposite is also true.
however, and, i would argue, more relevantly), i would caution people from making similar sweeping generalizations about indians (which i hear much, much more than any generalizations about pakistanis and think is much more of a problem).
after all, being a “paki-lover” is hardly a slur at all and would certainly cause no one in BD any social, professional, or electoral harm.
but being tagged as an “india-lover” or “india dalal” is a very common insult, with severe professional consequences (in government service, military, media, academia, etc) and at the ballot box is electoral death.
frankly, i rarely hear anyone make nasty comments about pakistan or pakistanis. i hear such comments about india and indians all the time!
yes, there are many indians who look down on bangladesh and bangladeshis, but there are also many indians who are filled with nothing but positive thoughts about us, as well. and, probably the majority (as is probably the case in pakistan) are somewhere in the middle.
certainly we cannot paint all the people of any one country with one broad brush, but i actually think that in bangladesh in 2008 that this is something we do far more with indians than we do with pakistanis.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:40 am
#21
“but who, exactly, in bangladesh does hate pakistan, the way you suggest?”
Plenty of people. You and I clearly don’t move in the same social circles. Give me a buzz on Facebook and I’ll show you a whole new world!There is so much anger and hatred there.
“as for the fact that many pakistanis have nothing but regret for the atrocities of 1971 and are filled with fellow feeling for bangladeshis, i have also found this to be true in my interactions. no argument there.”
But how many times have you written about it? Who else has written about it? I’ve never read anything written by a deshi journalist/writer on this topic, except perhaps an excerpt from Muntasir Mamun’s book.
I travelled with 9 other journalists, most of whom were surprised by the attitude of the Pakistanis. No one, had ever told us that they were so full of regret, especially the non-elites.
Zafar bhai, I think you’ve misunderstood the message I’m trying to convey (But then that’s hardly surprising..you and I hardly ever see eye to eye on issues it seems)
I’m not arguing that people are anti-indi/pk or that they shouldn’t be.
All I wanted to do was share with our countrymen, people like me and my friends, who have no idea how full of remorse the common Pakistani is about the Genocide of 1971.
A lot of people in my circles of friends and family did not even know that a shopkeeper or a bus-driver knew about the genocides. We did not have the same privileges as you and some others who’ve had the benefit of meeting Pakistanis from all walks of life.
“certainly we cannot paint all the people of any one country with one broad brush, but i actually think that in bangladesh in 2008 that this is something we do far more with indians than we do with pakistanis.”
I think we do it to the people of both countries. We try to divide our loyalties in one of the two quarters– anti-pk or anti-indian, leaving very few people in the middle and forcing people to choose. If you’re progressive/secular/liberal you have to be anti-PK or if you’re more conservative/right-centric you must be an anti-indian/pro-paki. The latter is also labeled as a JI-sympathizers. What happens to the people in the middle?
And being called a ‘paki-lover’ really did hurt
June 18th, 2008 at 11:01 am
maybe you and i need to switch friends’ circles! but, seriously, the basic premise of your piece is that BDs are virulently anti-pak to begin with. i am merely pointing out that this isn’t actually correct, and that the number of anti-indians in BD dwarves the number of anti-pakistanis. yes, both knee-jerk attitudes are wrong, but one is much more prevalent than the other, and, i would argue, also more pernicious and harmful. that is my sole point.
June 18th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Then let’s just agree to disagree because I meet way too many anti-pk sentiment-wala ppl.
i’ve seen housewives who stay glued to hindi serials, follow indian shows like a fashion-bible. kids learn to sing hindi songs before they start to sing bangla songs. i’m tired of people telling that i should do all my wedding shopping in India! So, no, in the social circle I live in, people are somehow more accepting of india.They gaped in horror when I told them that I visited Pakistan and the people were actually quite nice and likeable.
And you’ve misunderstood the premise. It wasn’t that “BDs are virulently anti-pak to begin with”. The premise was that we know very little about how the Pakistanis feel about Bangladesh ‘to begin with’. It’s either my communication or your comprehension.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
zafar
I do not know what age group you and Fariha belong to. :). It may not be a matter of friend circle rather a matter of generation. The Bangladesh student community I grew up with in the 80s were overwhelmingly anti Indian. But I feel that that situation has changed. The high school/college students of these days I come across once a while gives me a different impression. The sample size however is too small to make a sweeping sttement about a generation.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
//As for the formal apology; I differ with you. Gen.Musharraf, the head of the army, during his BD visit went to visit the SritiShoudh in Savaar and expressed regret and remorse//
We have the exactly opposite stories too.While discussing the fact that Pakistan should apologize,Mr.Raja,a Pakistani Diplomat to Bangladesh was sent back to his country for making comments like”Why should we apologize?for loosing Pakistan in 1971?”
(I am sorry right now I do not have the exact date, but this created quite a turmoil throughout the country few years back and I think you can find his speech and the consequences if you look a bit)
And about General Musharraf’s speech,I would request you to post his exact words(I am not forcing,just asking if you have it at your hand)to enlighten me because in most of the cases Pakistani leaders just express their “regret” and “remorse” towards the “Bloodshed” avoiding the facts like who killed whom and who were the actual sufferers.Their “apologies” in many cases sound like crocodile tears(sometimes they even sound as if the suffering was same for both the parts !).Besides,signed petition from “Civil Society” or some vague remourse does not satisfy the sufferers of Genocide.If it is something done to the Germans by the Jews,it would somehow make sense.
//Again, at the risk of being labeled, I dare suggest that perhaps, it’s time to call truce and move on.//
Like my previous post, I agree with you that there is no point having grudge against the common people of Pakistan who had nothing to do with 1971 atrocities.But again,before their government apologizing for their crime CLEARLY,the hatred will not be removed.And being too generous with lines like “The people of Pakistan have nothing but respect for Bangladesh” do sound a little like promoting Pakistan(I am telling this as a reader,I am not accusing you of this).I wish some day my country will be strong enough to make their Government apologize FORMALLY and in CLEAR LANGUAGE.Forgiving criminals before they even ask for it comes from weakness and incapability-which is unfortunately true for present Bangladesh.May be a truce with the Pakistanis who really apologize for 1971,but not with their Government who actually run the state and continues saying derogatory comments about our liberation war.
Lastly,I must admit,your fascinating article has kindled my desire to visit Pakistan and meet their common people.My heartiest thanks for this!
June 18th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
#25
I think it would be safe to say that Zafar bhai and I do not belong to the same generation. My generation comprises of the daughters and sons of the freedom fighters, students and youths of ‘71. When the first elected govt came to power in ‘91, we were in primary school.
Our generation grew up just hearing stories about ‘71, reading history where the documentation of history changed with every political government, watching too much indian television and reading too few books. Therefore, some of us, like Bangu above, believe that the Pak army is analogous to the Pakistani people. No one really bothered to correct our way of thinking or straighten out our line of reasoning. =(
We all know all that there is to know about India, but very few of us even know who Gilani is!
June 18th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Lovely post..
I share the same sentiment as I found much warmth and hospitality in Dhaka and elsewhere in Bangladesh
Please do read this article of mine that was published in a Pakistani weekly
http://www.razarumi.com/2007/05/05/dhaka-by-degrees/
June 18th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
#27
*I’ve experienced their sincerity, so I guess it’s easier for me to deal with Pakistani sentiments. My intention was just to convey the messages sent by people like our bus driver. They wanted the people of Bangladesh to know how they feel for us.
*But I totally understand and agree that as a nation we do need to get that formal apology from Pakistan, in clearly worded statements, before we can really move forward. Apparently a lot of Pakistanis share the same sentiment. Well now they have an elected govt..so let’s see what happens
http://www.bt.com.bn/en/analysis/2008/01/27/towards_a_new_pakistan
The apology however, shouldn’t just come from the Govt, but also the army. But, when the common man asks for help, should we really turn our backs to them simply because the govt hasn’t apologized?
*The diplomat in question was Irfan Raja. This happened in 2001. (for more details on dhk-isloo relations look below)
http://www.thedailystar.net/suppliments/2006/15thanniv/bangladesh&theworld/bd_world11.htm
*I know Musharraf’s words are not enough and that it may have looked like I was promoting Pakistan. But I was genuinely touched by the sentiments of the common Pakistanis. If only they could share this in a more official capacity. May be then we could pressurize UN to recognize the 71 genocides. But these may just be my pipe dreams…
thank you for your kind words
June 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
As someone claiming Indian affiliation, am reading with fascination, representing the other “piece of the jigsaw”.
I can definitely empathise with Mashroof #27 in wanting (again) to visit Pakistan on reading the article and the subsequent discussion (I have been turned down for a visa on the 3 occasions I have tried - and I am not even an Indian citizen). I have a couple of relatives (who all live in India) who have visited Pakistan, all as part of delegations (journalist, academic, military and business), and I am am fascinated with every minute detail of their experiences. Much of what they say echoes Fariha’s article (”I had no idea that the common Pakistani people loved Indians so much … jonoiko bus driver amakey bollo amra bhai… dokandar kono poisha nilo na … etc”).
We shouldn’t make sweeping generalisations in either direction based on these data points though. No matter how much we break down barriers - education, political structures and other practicalities will shape our prejudices. In an ideal world we could say something like “in every country there are good people and bad people but mostly people are good …”. But in practice, people do harbor attitudes (even if they are sincere well intentioned individuals) that are a product of their influences, whether in the classroom or in the living room.
And to reiterate the overall point, from my personal experiences in Dhaka and elsewhere in Bangladesh, I would say there were days when I felt “I can’t believe we are two separate countries - I feel closer to these people than I do to those in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai” etc. and others when I felt, “I can’t believe what just happened/what someone just said …these people really hate us …” I could write ad infinitum taking either conclusion and peppering with countless anecdotes. And I’m sure Pakistanis and Bangladeshis visiting India could do the same.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
I belong to the same generation too,in 1991 I was also in my primaries….and Bangu cannot be fully blamed because Pakistani Army and Bureaucrats do not fall from the sky,they have their root amongst those “common” people-who allowed them to do all the mess(even now they are not out of it-Musharraf is still their president!).And if Bangu above by any chance is someone who lost his near and dear ones like Dr.Muhammad Zafar Iqbal did,his anger perfectly makes sense!
“Ouu it was our corrupt politicians and the army,we are the common people”-this does not make them fully free from their crime of silence.And yes,despite some intellectuals like Eqbal Ahmed or Poet Faiz Ahmed Faiz-they did support the war(there was radio coverage which common people followed).
Anyways,let us not be too naive to believe that all they have is “Respect” for us.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
//But I totally understand and agree that as a nation we do need to get that formal apology from Pakistan, in clearly worded statements, before we can really move forward//
Exactly!This was my main point and like you,I also hope that Pakistan will have a leader who will really have the guts to admit and apologize.If not,well…looking at the rate of comparative development between the two countries,it can be said that sooner or later we will make their government do it(maybe then my grand children will be in Primaries,but I still believe in the power of my nation…)
//I was genuinely touched by the sentiments of the common Pakistanis. If only they could share this in a more official capacity//
Reading your exceptionally well-written article,so was I.But here the second line have the catch-it is their duty in the first hand to share it officially.Maybe the sweet words were enough for generous people like you,but people who may have far bitter experience can very well differ.
//My intention was just to convey the messages sent by people like our bus driver.//
As a reader I feel that you are hundred percent successful in conveying that.I again thank you for your wonderful article.It looks like I do not differ much with you since you agreed that we do need that FORMAL apology before moving forward.
Looking forward to some more articles like this in near future from you!
June 19th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Comment #12 quite correctly asserts the ruling class in Pakistan is primarily made up of Punjabis or Sindhis. I just want to extend this point — it has always been the Punjabis in the power politics and civil bureaucracy, and not the Pathans and Baluch, who gets ridiculed by their Punjabi brothers every so often!
Prior to 1971, to the upper echelon of the Punjabi society, the Bengalis in East Pakistan were converted Hindus, and I hasten to add, from a low-caste (never Brahmins). We also spoke/speak a language that is derived from Sanskrit, which is devoid of any Arabic alphabets, unlike Urdu. Many Punjabis (and I have met many) feel a sense of superiority to this day, speaking the connoisseur’s language and in their mind, the “Islamic language”.
And on a different note, I have met educated Bangladeshis who speak Urdu at home (connoisseur’s language!) and when they do speak Bangla in public, it is often sugar-coated with a thick Urdu accent.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Although this article was very well written but it is quite clear that many ppl in Bangladesh though agree that ordinary ppl of Pakistan were not responsible for what ever happened in 1971 but still look at the ordinary Pakistanis suspiciously (maybe because they are taught that all Pakistanis are bad ppl). I agree that Bangladeshis had to see the most terrible times in 1971 and soe sections of Pakistanis are not very symphathetic towards the Bangladeshis but this doesnot mean that genuine goodwill gestures of majority of the ordinary Pakistanis should be seen with suspicion. Many like Mr Bangu demand that Pakistani ppl should be made to pay the price just like the Germans were made to do after WWI & WW II however this is completely wrong. Yes I agree that the armymen and politicians involved in 1971 should have had been punished (which was not done unfortunately and I have always felt that it should be done) but this desnot mean that entire nation should pay for it. After all a large number of Biharis and other non bengalis were killed brutally by the Mukti Bahini but I dont rememeber that Bangladeshi govt punishing them after gaining independence. In those days the media was tighty controlled by the state and thus ppl in West Pakistan were always told that everything was ok in East Pak and they were with the Pak army, till 15th Dec 1971 ppl were told false stories of Pakistan winning the war as the result when the news of Pakistan’s surrender reached West Pak, many ppl got a heart attach and died. I am an Urdu Speaking Pakistani and my family migrated from UP, my mother’s aunt use to live in Rangpur prior to 1972 and ran an Urdu Medium school, during the troubled times of 1971, the school was burned down by the mukti bahini and she and her husband had to flee from East Pak to save their lives. As for the apology goes, I do agree that Pak govt and the army should apologise not just to the Bangladeshis but also to the Pakistani ppl for tearing their country apart just for their power lust. However at the same time the ppl of Bangladesh should whole heartedly appreciate the sentiments of those Pakistanis who realy regret and I assure u that overwhelming majority of Pakistanis blame our own army and power hungry politicians and bureaucrats for the entire tragedy.
June 19th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
In response to note no 27 written by Mashroof, I would like to say that, brother, you were not there in Pakistan. You did not experience what Fariha has experienced. You did not look at the eyes of the Pakistani common people, did not hear their voice full of love and respect for Bangladeshis now, na? Better, one should visist Pakistan himself/herself just to feel that sentiment.
Onething: why dont we study the books on 71 written by foreign journalists, Pakistani Generals , Indian Generals as well? May be we can have a better picture of 71 summing up all those books.
In response to Kobial: that is why Pakistani ppl who are aware of this discrimintion, fighting against it. Discrimination in power-politics, in education, in beaurocracy. But this is a common picture all over the world, not an attitude particularly against Bangladeshis.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
#34
The rich in Pakistan are richer than the richest of BD. The poor, poorer than our poorest. I think the struggles of the Pakistani people; the working classes still remain the same. Especially the Pukhtuns, Hazaras, Balochis and even some Muhajirs. They too are being deprived of their economic, political and civil rights, just like we were in 1971. But now, we’re in a position to help them. We can all benefit from better regional cooperation.
Sheuly (#36) was with me, so she felt it and has experienced the love. 4-5 other delegations went before ours, yet mine is the second article on the ‘71 sentiments of the Pakistani people from all these delegations.
#35
A PK foreign ministry official emailed me the other day after reading my article. He said ‘A few thousand idiots are not representative of the 16 crore Pakistanis.’ A Pakistani friend wrote, ‘The vast majority of people would undo the crimes of the past if they could. And if they had had the power in 1971, they would’ve stopped it’.
Some of us, really appreciate such sentiments. Not all of us are inherently distrustful of Pakistanis. Just that we rarely get the chance to meet the Pakistani commoners. But give it some time. Some wounds are still raw. Once time heals the wounds and the ruling class of Pakistan can bring themselves to say sorry, I’m sure we will all be able to grow together and work towards a better future for all of us.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
In response to comment #36, I’m afraid you misread my point. The discrimination evident is within today’s Pakistan when we are talking politics, bureaucracy and even military hierarchy. And I applaud those within Pakistan fighting it.
However, I wanted to make clear, with background and reason, of the Punjabi racism towards Bengalis and I’m not sure how it is, as you put it, “a common picture all over the world”. Are you suggesting Punjabis are condescending towards people from “all over the world”?
June 19th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
in response to sheuly,sister,I was not there-True.But this is also true that I have experiences of my own where I heard comments like “Bangladesh” is a satellite state of India,we would have been better off if we were with the nuclear weapon owning West Pakistanis,all the buildings we have are actually the contribution of Ayub Khan etc etc…..so , what I wrote at least had its base.But then again,Fariha’s wonderful article was fully able to give me a nice touch of their respect towards us.As we all have our different experiences, I think it is kinda “unnecessary” to make comments like”You did not experience what Fariha has experienced”.It sounds a little rude…if I may add with solemn humbleness.
Thanks for your comment and I again thank Fariha for her article(no words are enough to describe how awesome it is!)
And yes, some day I will definitely visit Pakistan when I have the opportunity-to experience what I read in Fariha’s article!
June 20th, 2008 at 4:37 am
This is the era when we everybody need to desensitize our nationalistic feeling. Thanks to technology, the whole world beame even smaller than a village. Now it does take shorter time to convey a message from any city of America to any village of Bangladesh than it would have taken to convey the same message from one block of any street to the other block of the same street 50 years ago. But people’s mentality didn’t change in the same fast-track. We don’t need to hate people in the name of race or religion, nationality or ethnicity and status of person high or low.
The discussion of topic should help open up our eyes and mind. Now for the last 37 years we have the hatred for all Pakistanis. Their army fought us and killed us. We forget love and war don’t abide by any rules and make them mad. Even there were incidence in 1971 Muktijoddah sons killed Rajaker-Shanti Bahini fathers. This is the example how the war make people mad.
We can’t forgive the Pakistanis and call them Paki as a symbol of hatred; and think all of Pakistanis are bad. But I’m sure all the Pakistanis are not bad people as we many assume in that way. I,m giving a good example of our mistaken belief. Here, in the USA one of my Bangladeshi friends was not getting a medical certificate for him from anyone of Bangladeshi and Indian community. Finally, he got the certificate from a Pakistani physician and it’s saved him from a complex life-and-death family situation.
So we everybody should reinvent ourselves as humans with global indentity instead of constricted concept of nationality and that’s the prime cause of hatred and wars all over the planet.
Thanks.
June 20th, 2008 at 6:49 am
#40, Bitterboy,
I am ardently following this link and reading every single line of each comment. Besides your wonderful, universal love philosophy something else caught my eyes. Though little off-track, can’t resist highlighting your “medical certificate” issue. In USA, if any Bangladeshi, Indian, Israeli or Russian doctor denies to certify me for diagnosed conditions – his back side will be sued big time. I am suspicious of the nature of the medical certificate that was denied by Bangladeshi and Indian doctors. May be this example is a bit pushing to prove the “brotherly” bonding between Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:12 am
this comment is to bitterboy:
//Even there were incidence in 1971 Muktijoddah sons killed Rajaker-Shanti Bahini fathers. This is the example how the war make people mad.//
Please clarify what is meant by Shanti Bahini in your post.Is it Shanti Committee?As far I know Shanti Bahini is the armed wing of
Janasamhati Samiti ,which is a whole different issue.I would be really glad if you kindly elucidate the point.
//Here, in the USA one of my Bangladeshi friends was not getting a medical certificate for him from anyone of Bangladeshi and Indian community//
Well,in my limited knowledge,I dont think being good is mutually exclusive and to make one look good others have to look bad.
If a Pakistani Guy is good(or Bad),his own actions are more than enough.Is it relly necessary to mention that Bangladeshi or Indian doctors were not good enough?
Anyways,thanks for your comment again.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I feel, Fariha, as a young journalist of post liberation era, must dig into the archives to learn facts for herself. If she had, I’m sure as a journalist, she could have asked the senior govt. people in Pakistan, one simple question,
Fariha must know a few facts before she delves in more into Pak-Bangladesh friendship issue.
Bangladesh, since long back, has been trying to obtain formal recognition by Pakistan of Bangladesh as an independent and sovereign country.
Bongobondhu even visited Pakistan in 1973 to attend the OIC conference, which was held in Lahore. He insisted on Pakistan’s recognition prior to his visit. Despite efforts by the OIC members, Bhutto turned a deaf year.
Then Bongobondhu as an extended effort invited him to visit Bangladesh during his stay in Lahore, which he did.
But showed disrespect to the national “Sritishoudho”, while visiting to lay floral wreath.
There he removed his cap in disrespect, while the protocol people laid the wreath on his behalf.
Same Mr. Bhutto had said emphatically on reaching Karachi airport on 26th march 1971, after witnessing the beginning of genocide at midnight on 25th march 1971 in Dhaka, “Thank God Pakistan is saved”. Bhutto was sworn in as the President and 1st civilian Chief Martial Law Administrator of Pakistan after the surrender of Pakistan army to the Joint Forces of Bangladesh and India in Dhaka on 16th December 1971.He later made sure that Bangladesh remains in the new constitution of Pakistan as “East Pakistan under occupation”.
But Bhutto lost no time to recognize Bangladesh on the fateful morning of 15th August 1975, as if, Bangladesh has now been ‘liberated’.
Can we still defend the Paki people in general, saying they did not fight, Pak Army did?
You may be surprised to know that Bangladesh has yet failed to obtain a formal statement of remorse and apology from the govt. of Pakistan despite persistent diplomatic and political efforts.
“Ap logo me etna remorse hai 1971 ke liye, aap humko bhai samjhte hai, to abhi tak ek simple formal apology kiun nehin bangladesh govt ko aur awam ko officially bhej sakte hain?
Agar aap karte, to hum, visit ke baad, ap ki yeh mehman nawazi aur bhai-bhai attitude bohot zour se bangladeshi awam aur govt ko ettela kar sakte thein.
Ab hum nehi kar sakte, kiu ke hum ne 1971 ke genocide history ko archive me par aur fotos dekh chuke hein.”
She could have also reminded them that, despite strained relationship with China till today, since Second World War,
and despite Japan being the most affected country of the war, Japan has formally apologized to China for the atrocities carried out by the Japanese army in China during the war.
Hope Fariha will ask next time she visits Pakistan.
Wally Hawk
Wally Hawk
June 21st, 2008 at 1:57 am
Please answer with proof.
Did common people of Pakistan ask the following questions to Army/Govt:
Why power was not given to the party who won the most seats in Election of 1970?
Why the diplomats and journalists where ousted from Dhaka in march 25, 1971?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:59 am
@Wally Bhai,I think what Fariha tried is to give us the message that the grass-root commoners of Pakistan(not the diplomats,other Govt Officials,the Army or some ignorant-dumb-headed Pakistani with zero knowledge level about 1971)are very different about their attitude towards Bangladesh than their ruling class.And it is not always possible for them to make their government do what is right.For example,the atrocity of many Bangladeshi Government officials towards the tribal people in Chittagong Hill Tracts can very well be compared with the atrocity of Pak army in 1971.Many common Bangalis are against this oppression,but they could do very little due to their limitations.Yes,I understand that a Tribal sufferer can very well blame all of us for our failure to make our government stopping the oppression,but denying the fact that many Bangalis actually sympathize them will be a bit rude.Besides,in the reply to one of my posts (see post number 30) Fariha clearly said that we need a formal apology before we move on.
I ,in my limited knowledge,think that we should not mix up the common people of Pakistan(who actually sympathize and apologize for 1971) with the Pakistani Government,just like we should not mix up George Harrison and thousands of American people at that concert with the Nixon Administration.
Please correct me if I am wrong in my reasoning.Thank you.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:57 am
Correction:
Mashroof, please read Shanti-committee/peace-committee instead of Shanti-bahini which has no link with our independent war-time events.
Thanks.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:01 am
#43
Dear Wally Hawk
May be you need to check your facts before you point a finger at me. I may belong to the post-71 generation, but I am guessing you must be aware of the following fact
*In 1973, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman had insisted on Bangladesh being recognized as an independent and sovereign nation before he set foot in Pakistan. In fact, he DID NOT set foot in Pakistan till he was assured of that fact.
If you know your history, then you must also know that Bongobondhu was received at the airport with a guard of honor and guess who was made to salute him? Tikka Khan, the main butcher of ‘71. If you have doubts about my knowledge of my history, which is hardly befuddled by hatred, please contradict me with due proof.
As to Bhutto’s reaction on 5th August, 1975, how does that bear any relation to the reaction of the Pakistani people? How does Iajuddin’s joy at the army take over of 1/11 reflect how I feel about democracy in Bangladesh?
FYI, ‘as a young journalist of post liberation era’ I did ask the Foreign MInistry official a question.
I asked them how long till the true history of 1971 is included in the text books of Pakistan. This is a more pertinent question than the issue of apology. Till they recognize the deaths officially, the govt cannot be pushed to issue us a formal apology. They assured us, that was also in the long term plans. If every child in Pakistan knows what Bhutto and the army did to us in 1971, the apology won’t take long (this is what my experience tells me)
#44
I don’t know who they asked or when they asked, but all seemed to be aware of the answers.
To all,
We as Bangladeshis cannot push the Govt of Pakistan for an apology. But the people of Pakistan can. I’ve witnessed their remorse, now all we have to do is wait for them to mobilize and push for that apology. As I said earlier, they finally have an elected govt after a free and fair election, let’s see what happens now.
But if we keep pointing fingers at them for ‘not protesting 1971′, and for being unaware of the true events, then that doesn’t really help anybody. We will only alienate them further and delay our quest for that apology. We need to be tolerant and tell them the facts that they don’t know. Let them, then, ask their own govt to apologise to us. (I’ve already posted a link on this above. Pakistanis are already asking their govt to apologize to us.)
Mashroof has again reiterated how the people cannot be held responsible for the actions of a despotic government or ruthless army with his CHT analogy.
But let me ask you one thing,
Will the formal apology be enough if all future generations of Pakistan grow up not learning about what really happened in 1971?
The PK govt sponsors many delegations such as ours to increase ppl to ppl contact between BD and PK. Media, think tanks, teachers, researchers. All of us go over there, and ALL we talk about is 1971! Are we inviting Pakistanis over to our side to enlighten them? To give them a tour of the sites or a visit to the Liberation Museum?
In my humble opinion, they have put the first foot forward. Now the ball lies in our court. Be it an acknowledgement of our genocide or the issuance of a formal apology, no cause will progress if we are still pointing fingers at them and holding them accountable for Bhutto’s actions.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:03 am
With respect to the Japanese apology, read here
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/16/international/asia/16japan.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
One of the reasons why the Chinese and the Koreans are still not accepting of the Japanese apology is because Japan still tries to play down their role in Asian history.
I don’t know about anyone else, but an apology from Gilani will not be enough for me till the Govt of Pakistan really talks about their role in 1971 in their textbooks and till every Pakistani(regardless of whether they recognize it or not)is made aware of the genocides of 1971.
June 21st, 2008 at 7:47 am
How about Bangladeshi apology for all the atrocities committed by Mukti Bahini and the heinousness crimes still being committed against Baharis… Is that forthcoming anytime soon?
or is this just one sided demand?
two to tango?
June 21st, 2008 at 10:51 am
Perhaps this can be a start..
http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/
For both the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis….
June 21st, 2008 at 10:57 am
#49 “the heinousness crimes still being committed against Baharis…”
Please give example. They are living as Bangladeshi citizens and no hatred against Biharis exists now.
In 1971 they helped the Pakistani Army in killing Bengalis that is why some unfortunate incidents happened after the fall of Dhaka.
Last I checked a court gave a verdict to award the Biharis in Bangladeshi camps as Bangladeshi citizens but they are the ones who are keeping their hope to return alive by denouncing Bangladeshi citizenship.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
@#49 Ava,
Pakistani Government refused to recognize the Biharis(those who lived in the Eastern Part and currently living in the Geneva Camp) as Pakistani Citizens till now and that is the main reason these people are living in such a condition to a country which many of them still think not their own.If it is about formal apology,to whom should we ask for it?The Paki Government who even refuses these Biharis as their citizens?
Yes,as a Bangladeshi I also denounce the criminal acts of some Bengali people who killed the innocent Biharis in the name of avenging the death of Bengalis by those Biharis who helped Pak army in killing.We cannot bring back the dead but we can definitely try to improve their condition.And on that was,as Rezwan mentioned,they had been recognized as Bangladeshi citizens and are given the voting rights.
Lastly,I am not defending the Bengalis who are responsible for even a single death of an innocent Bihari.Murderers of innocent people are criminals irrespictive of their nationality and they should be punished as criminals.But let us look at what Eqbal Ahmed(famous Pakistani Intellectual who is also a Bihari) wrote in his “Letter to a Pakistani Diplomat” :
“Although I mourn the death of Biharis by Bengali vigilantes and condemn the irresponsibilities of the Awami League, I am not willing to equate their actions with that of the government and the criminal acts of an organized, professional army.”
check http://www.bitsonline.net/eqbal/articles_by_eqbal_view.asp?id=8&cid=2
So you see,it was not really the “two-to-tango” thing.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:57 pm
*read “on that way” instead of “on that was” in the 2nd last line oof 2nd paragraph.
also read “to whom we should ask” instead of “to whom we should ask for” in the first paragraph.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
#49 and #51
“In 1971 they helped the Pakistani Army in killing Bengalis that is why some unfortunate incidents happened after the fall of Dhaka.”
Who is this ‘they’? All urdu speaking, biharis, indians, pakistanis, who may or may not have helped the Pakistani army? Do we have an account of how many of the masacarred families actually had helped the Pak Army? Did anyone keep count of that?
For those like the family of Prof Kazmi (comment #19), will we as a nation ever apologize?
And again, Dhaka did not ‘fall’. Bangladesh gained Independence.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Dear Rezwan,
I do agree that a significant number of Biharis did help Pak army but still a large number of Innocent biharis and other non bengalis who were not involved with Pak army were killed by Mukti Bahini for example I know a Bihari family whose 10 year old child was killed when Mukti Bahini attacked an Urdu Medium School in Dhaka killing everyone similarly their Pathan chowkidaar was buried alive by the mukti bahini men as they though that he might be conspiring with Pak army. But u are right, a formal appology is needed. All I can do presently is to only tender an apology to the ppl of Bangladesh from my side on behalf of my country Pakistan. I hope that a formal appology follows soon and I hope that no such incidents are repeated anywhere in this world esp in South Asia. Amen
June 21st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I give a proposal why don’t we apologise for killing Biharis and include in our history immidiately, where as pakistan can keep their history undchanged. I am sure those nice guys can include that in the history in the long term. as long as it is before KEYAMAT.
(Common people of) Pakistan Zindabad
June 21st, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I will echo #52 Mashroof here:
“I also denounce the criminal acts of some Bengali people who killed the innocent Biharis in the name of avenging the death of Bengalis by those Biharis who helped Pak army in killing”
#55 Saim: I think there is a misconception. Mukti Bahini did not indiscriminately kill Biharis during the war like the Paksitani Army did to Bangladeshis.
Some records of Bihari killings are available in the international newspapers:
http://www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net/newspaper_reports.php.html
Most of it happened after the surrender of Pakistani Army (Fariha I meant that) and Bangladesh’s independence on Dec 16, 1971. And it was mostly Bengali mobs who engaged in Bihari killings except in some cases. The Biharis allegiance to Pakistan was evident to everybody and they did not accept the defeat.
If you read the above newspaper reports you will see Bengalis discovered mass graves looking for their lost relatives in Bihari controlled areas like Mirpur or in Rayer Bazar. And all their anger turned on to the Biharis. The number of deaths were in hundreds perhaps a few thousands.
Mirpur was liberated on January 31, 1972, one and a half months after the victory on December 16, 1971. So the war actually went on. (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=14724)
Its truly sad the law and order situation was bad at times and innocent people were caught up in the middle. And we should explore why the rage of the mob was so violent and whether it was the release of the anguish as they were subject to the brutal genocide (http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/?page_id=12) by the Pakistani Army.
Fariha: did anyone keep count of anything? They number of Bengalis killed or the Pakistani soldiers or the Biharis?
A recent study claims that 269,000 people died in the Bangladesh liberation war.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/269000_died_in_Bangladesh_war/articleshow/3147513.cms
We can play the counting game or try to lament why these happened and prevent such thing from happening again.
In Germany visiting holocaust memorial is a must for Educational institutions just to remind the youth what horror happened because of their predecessors.
Some of us are happy to keep our liberation war history under our bed as if we should unconditionally forgive and forget. I mean I am all for reconciliation with the friendly people of Pakistan but everybody should know what happened and why.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:04 pm
@all….can anyone please check out the post by Kobial?(#34) I am sorry but I am absolutely ridiculed and speechless seeing his claims and right now I am not seeing any “polite” way to answer.(I accept my limitation for the moment)
Can any of you guys help me?Maybe it is my limitation that I am not able to make sense from that post#34.
Is he speaking about 11th centure by mentioning the convertion of religion from Hindu to Muslim?And I have seen some wannabe jokers who speak “Banglish” but speking Bangla in thick Urdu Accent is the think I heard for the first time in my life.
I am absolutely in the middle of nowhere.Can you guys(including Kobial) help me out please?
June 22nd, 2008 at 2:26 am
Rezwan bhai,
Thanks for the clarification. And my apologies. With respect to #57, I couldn’t agree more.
Mashroof,
There are some people here in desh, mostly coming from urdu-speaking families, who still speak Bangla with an Urdu accent. They perhaps don’t do it intentionally, but 36 years in BD is a long time to get rid of the accent.
Off the top of my head, one human rights activist and one NGO leader(married to a journalist) speak Bangla like that (at least the Bangla I heard them speak). But I wouldn’t call the accent ‘thick’. May be he met some wannabes.
June 22nd, 2008 at 6:44 am
Dear all,
I often times visit this Dristipat Blogspot since, I believe, 2005 and many a times fought with many including the administrator and other staltwart blogers on diverse issues. I was compelled to mention quite a few times that I was a mini-teeny organizer of independence war and die-heart activist of our autonomy-movement, in my own won way, since 2-3 years before our liberation war. I was very much nationalist but beyond and above everything, I was and I’m a human.
I was too much saddened to see the innocent deaths of thousands and lakhs, not in millions though, our official figure. I have seen dead bodies carried away by the tide of creeks and rivers and seen vultures biting on the human bodies, old and young, men and women, Hindus and Muslims from all walks of our society. I was so outraged and anguished by the atrocities perpetrated by barbaric Pakistni army and their accomplices,razakers/albadars/al-shams.
Yet, I was once extremely stirred by my human sense when I saw about 8-10 decaying dead bodies of Pakistani army was spread around on the swamp land just after receding monson water; bone stewn around; and skin, visceral organs etc making green-bluish hue of human-mass being blended with swamp mud. I was really moved by witnessing the human tragedy of war. At that time I truely forgot who they were and what they did with us. I only thought they were humans and so are we; they were muslim and so were we. Muslims killed by muslims and don’t get Janaza and burial. What happened to us! Once our parents and grand-parents with those of them fought for Pakistan against the British. Even our leaders including Sheik Mujib was very much heroic student activist for independent Pakistan. Why is now such a human tragedy and genocide? I have kept thinking in the same way since that day.
By the way, the secne I’m talking about was on 24th December 1971, after 8 days of our national independence, when our own thana became free of Pakistani army.
I was more saddend and shocked to listening the bragging fun-stories narrated by a Muktijoddah, Habilder major of Bengal regimen in Dhaka cantonment just a fortinight period of independence. I happened to vist my neighbourly-cousin, also a Habilder major who was also a Muktijoddah, seriously injured during direct fighting encounter with Pak-army. The guy, friend and company-mate of my cousin had advanced to Dhaka city at the earliest days. He was, as per his verson, in a Muktijoddah temporary camp in the dessertd house of Kashem minister of Malek-ministry in shaymoli-Mirpur area. He gave a gruesome fun-making stories how they got in custody scores of beautiful young non-Bengali [bombiya, bearees, agakhani and son] women and raped them and killed them. I just heard vivid grisly narrative but I could hardly believe my ears what I was listening to.
That’s why, I can no longer, appreciate any so called liberation or independence wars, anywhere in the world. So called extreme patriotism breeds extreme hatred to anti-nationalists. Patriotism is the provoking force and spirit of war-criminality.
If we think of humanity and human values, we all should abhor the so called war of independence. It’s the venomous spirit for self-deception and all the time trafficked and traded by the shrewd politicians for their own vested interest of power, positon and prestige.
If there is any worthy movement or war for us and for now it is the war of reunification and reconciliaton of people. As the European nations reconciled and reunified under the umbrella of EEU, so should all the regional nations come together under the new umbrella like USAC [union of south asian countries], UMEC [union of middle eastern countries], UAC [union of african countries], ULAC [union of latin american countries] etc. When all the regional countries could stride and consolidate their unity through their own unions, then whole planet can come under the banner of one nation and one state i,e. I love to imagine and call it “HUMAN NATION STATE”. And that’s the way the way the planet can turn to a paradise through compassion, love and empathy instead of hatred and animosity.
Amen.
Thanks.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:37 am
// I was once extremely stirred by my human sense when I saw about 8-10 decaying dead bodies of Pakistani army was spread around on the swamp land //
Although I was not born during 1971,but I have seen the pictures of what these Pak Army did to the innocent people.And no human can do it unless he becomes a monster.I am sorry I do not feel as bad as you did-in my opinion they got what they deserved.Perhaps you can visit to the killing zones and ask the raped women whether they do feel the same or not.
And whatever Ram Rajya you are dreaming about that may be your personal opinion(for which I have full respect),but dont even try to call our Liberation war as “So-Called”.Nationalistic or not,organizer or not,once-upon freedom fighter or not,anyone who calls 1971 Independence was as “So-Called” is a very clear sign of what we new generation identify as “Tui Razakar”.
Thank you.
June 22nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Fariha in her reaction to my post no.43, informs me that Bhutto did recognize Bangladseh prior to his visit and that the then chief of staff of Pakistan Army saluted Bongobondhu (Big deal!). For me, it was truely painful to see that the man who left Bangladseh with the shameful name of ‘Butcher of Bengal’now adornes the coveted high office of Chief of Army Staff of Pakistan!
Chief of Army Staff saluting a gathering of foreign heads of states in course of his basic duty, appears to Fariha as a big deal!
In Simla agreement which Indira Gandhi and Bhutto signed. Bhutto pledged albeit under signature, to Formally Recognize Bangladesh as a sovereign and independent state, if the 194 POWs who were held in India on war crimes charges under Geneva Convention, were set free. In consultation with Bangladesh, Indira Gandhi agreed.
Alas! As soon as the criminals reached Pakistan, Bhutto fell back on his promise and held Bangladseh as East Pakistan in the new constitution of Pakistan!
When some of the well-meaning OIC delegates mounted shuttle diplomacy between Lahore and Dhaka with their executive jet to find a way out for Bongobondhu to attend the conference, they were fed with all these evidences at Dhaka. Bhutto then was cornered to allow publishing a press note of recognition of Bangladseh by Pakistan. (Again a big deal!)
I’ll no more argue with Fariha, because it is pointless. (From my personal experience of life, I never argued with my daughter, I succumbed pronto, any time she raised an issue. But I did enjoy arguing with my son on issues and did sometimes succeed in bringing him to my point of view.)
Now I’ll be specific on my points. It is upto the members of the “Take back Bangladesh”generation to take it or leave it.
1. Pakistani people were solidly behind their Govt in their henious acts of gencocide in Bangladesh. They had no lack of information. They code named BBC as ‘Bharat Broadcasting Corporation’. Their reaction on rape was, ‘ab sachcha musalman paida hoga’.On genocide, their opinion was ‘kafer logo ko marna hamara farz hai’.
2. Bhai-bhai thing has grown, albeit after 15th August 1975, when they saw ‘hamare bhaion ne sabse bara ghaddar ko maar dala’. It further grew stronger when they saw, ‘hamare sachacha bhaion ne ab bangladseh ka sarkar bhi bana lia’.(I’m refereing to the cabinet under PM Shah Azizur Rahman at the behest of Shaheed Zia).And now (During Fariha’s visit), I’m sure they all must be melting in ‘remorse’ because we have already granted them the privilege of inducting their fellow warriors in the Cabinet of Independent Bangladesh.
3. Look at me, I’m asking for a formal apology from them! What an audacity!!Now I may have to live the rest of my life with my fingers crossed, lest I have to apologize for committing ‘ghaddari’ with them in ’71.
Fariha, ma amar, can you pl assure me, I won’t have to live to do that?
June 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 pm
@Wally Bhai,
Fariha actually spoke about the formal apology clearly(see post 30),which I mentioned you earlier(see post 45).And I dont think it was considered ‘audacity’ anywhere.
Reading your post it seemed to me that you DO have valid reasons for hating Pakistan,maybe those who did not see the atrocities will never understand this.
But again,in my limited knowledge,hatred will hardly solve anything.
Sorry to interrupt between you and Fariha.
Thank You.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Pakistanis just like any other nation contain people who are good and bad.
Fariha has spent a few pleasant days in Pakistan meeting a few people and heard sweet words.
The truth is many Pakistanis are extremely racist towards Bengalis who they view as inferior, less “Islamic” (even if the Pakistani holding that view is irreligious and drinks alcohol) and many other things. However the “Punjabi” card is often used by many Pakistanis such as Mohajirs, when in fact they themselves are just as racist towards Bengalis.
As a Muslim Bangladeshi I wish to have nothing to do with the state of Pakistan and wish to keep it far away from us. I desire closer relationships with east Asian countries including Muslim Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei.
Pakistan will inevitably collapse into different states and hopefully the new successor states will be more peaceful, prosperous and progressive.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:20 am
I am a Pakistani, and let me say that I am glad the author had a good time in Pakistan. We really don’t have anything against Bangladeshis. We made mistakes, we realize them, we wish they hadn’t happened, but what has been done cannot now be undone, and we have moved on. There are some things Bangladesh has done better than us, such as controlling their population or educating their people (I’m taking the authors word on this), but Pakistan’s per capita income is higher than Bangladesh and our Gini Coefficient is lower than Bangladesh’s which means we are a richer country with lower income disparity amongst our population. So in fact, Bangladesh can learn a lot from us too. I believe our government offered to help set up nuclear power plants in Bangladesh. So lets just respect each other and look to the future. With hindsight, we know the people of Pakistan and Bangladesh are better off being separate nations, but that does not mean we can’t be friends. We have gotten over 71 since a long time now, and we’re extending the hand of freindship, it’s upto the Bangladeshis if they want to shake it.
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:53 am
#62
Wally Uncle,
I won’t argue with you. You probably still live with the memories of ‘71 and I can completely understand how even in the light of my article, it is difficult for you to see Pakistan differently. I sympathize with you also because my father has not one,but two daughters. So, let me spare you the endless…erm…arguments.
But I would like to ask you just two questions?
1) Should all future generations of Bangladeshis hold all future generations of Pakistanis accountable for the genocide and rapes of 1971?
2)If we are not going to forgive Pakistan, ever (worst case scenario) and keep throwing ‘71 back at anyone who speaks of conflict resolution, reconciliation and speak, why do we keep asking for the apology?
#64
If we, Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis, are ever to succeed as a region, we cannot afford to keep our distances. SAARC will never succeed. In this era of globalization and trading blocs, we cannot afford to keep our doors locked to Pakistan. I don’t understand how picking Brunei or Malaysia over Pakistan really helps. FYI: We pay 3 times more for all imported Pakistani products– textiles, food etc, simply because we do not have a direct shipping line with them and goods come via Singapore. Pakistan e aamer daam 20tk/kg..retail!!
#65
I’ve read the stats too, but my article was based on the on-ground realities I faced. Lack of facilities in NWFP and Balochistan, poor literacy rates, lower female participation..etc etc. When you read comments such as #64, bear in mind that one of the key problems, that really wards us off cooperation, is the growth of fundamentalist insurgencies in Pakistan. A spill-over effect can prove deadly. Having visited your country, I can safely say that the brand of Islam practiced in Bangladesh is very different from that in Pakistan.
And as for accepting the hand of friendship, you know what my stand is on that =)
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 am
@Zain
//We have gotten over 71 since a long time now, and we’re extending the hand of freindship, it’s upto the Bangladeshis if they want to shake it.//
With all due respect,its actually easy for the “Oppressors” to get over 1971 than the “Oppressed”.We were the people who faced a Genocide,not Pakistan.I hope you understand the sentiment here.If you read the posts and comments , you will see that most of us here appriciate the fact that common Pakistni people realizes our pain.And we also think that we should befriend with the broad-minded Pakistanis who have respect for our liberation war and have the guts to admit the crime done by Pak Army.
But when you speak about extending the hand of friendship(I mean the Government level),we Bangladeshis feel that Pakistan Government and Pak army should issue a formal apology with clear language to Bangladesh for the genocide.Surprisingly,a vast number of Pakistani people(Including lot many reknown Intellectuals,journalists,students,lawyers and other professionals) think that too-which clearly shows that we should not hate Pakistan blindly.And we actually don’t.Friendship already exists between the common people,but if this is about Government level-I already told you what is needed before we move on.What has been done cannot be undone,but at least one can recognize it and show respect,which unfortunately is not clearly visible from Pak government.
I hope you understand my point.
Thank you.
June 23rd, 2008 at 4:29 am
From the beginning of this thread, I was afraid that the writer’s ‘feel-good’ experience with nice people in Pakistan will be hijacked. Her attempt of ‘spread the love’ she felt for some fellow human being is quite misinterpreted by some people.
The attempt to equate the genocide in Bangladesh to ‘killing of Biharis’, spreading rumor about ‘raping of non-Bengali women by Moktijoddhas are not merely broad humanitarian views, they are deliberate attempt to wipe out the criminal activities of Pakistani STATE, Pakistani Military and their East Pakistani friends.
Like Mashroof, Rizwan, I am gravely sorry about any criminal act that happened against the innocent Biharis in lawless situation right after the liberation. Our leaders did not have the means of planning and providing securities to all the Bihris, I wish they had. At the same time, don’t try to paint all Biharis in the same color of innocence. If you lived in Dhaka in 71, you will know the facts. Learn little more about ‘Mirpur Boddhovumi’, learn what happened in Sajahanpur Railway Colony occupied by armed Biharis before the mob attack. Some of those killings were just result of direct war – no argument about it.
Was every single Muktijoddha an angel? NO! They were Jodu, Modhu, Ram, Kamal from all walks of life – just raised to the occasion. . In their Muktijoddha shoes, they are our pride, they are The Best my nation has ever produced. Heinous attempt to paint Muktijoddhas as rapist (#60) from some hearsay is way beyond my tolerance level.
#65, Zain, I appreciate your pride in your country’s achievement. But when you refer 71 as “we made some mistake” – clearly shows you have no clue what you are talking about. It was a Genocide and crime against humanity, not a mere ‘mistake’. When you say “We have gotten over 71” – I would say, We have not, We will not - till we get the formal apology. But thanks for extending your friendly hands; I will shake it any time as an individual’s hand – not as representative of Pakistan until that unconditional apology comes.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:16 am
With respect to comment #60
in the interest of continuing this discussion, i request you all to ignore the derogatory comments.
bb has a different take on history altogether and we’ve had these arguments with him in the past. one time, he tried to convince us that it the JI claim of ‘civil war’ was in fact not unfounded
This thread is not about how bb became a humanitarian overnight..or about who (he thinks)the real villains of ‘71 are. I don’t think that’s even debatable.
So please, let’s not make references to #60..nothing said there is relevant to my post.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:31 am
Warning: ‘Beating the dead horse continues…’
“I have never met anyone who was there when Dhaka fell, n he or she did not weep.Infact all of that u experienced in Pakistan stems from that deep sense of sorrow at the happenings of 1971″
This is the general attitude I have seen in 90% of the Pakistani people I met. ‘Bangladeshis are our brothers, we loved and cared for them. Hadn’t it been for those bastard Indian conspirators, we would still be happy together…. blah, blah, blah….’ They do have a ‘deep sense of sorrow’ at what happened in Bangladesh in 1971, but not a clue as to who was responsible for what. If this is true, there is no reason for them to be unfriendly to you. They love you, as their ‘brother’ (sister, in this case), feel for you, and are even sympathetic to the fact that India snatched your country from Pakistan and made you serve the bloody ‘hindus’, as an unofficial Indian state.
This attitude, coming from an illiterate shopkeeper with limited knowledge of history, may be fine; but my encounter with more distinguished Pakistanis have been really embarrassing. Again, the sample size is too small to make a sweeping judgment, but my feeling is that they are completely ignorant of the reality of 1971. I consider myself a reasonable person, and have protested all my life against bias or prejudice (be it in the form ‘ami sylhoti, tumi bangali’ or ‘I am a superior human being since my family is from Chittagong’ or ‘aare, or baap to asilo jailla; o ki jaane’), but I seriously doubt that Pakistanis have a slightest bit of regret for what they did in Bangladesh - esp. since the common people are not even aware of the facts. It takes a lot of courage and conviction to own up to something, I don’t just see that a lot of people do that (Pakistanis for BD or Americans for Iraq). Germany is irrelevant. The world knows what happened. The trial of the nazis, though somewhat symbolic at this point, also went a long way in bringing some facts to light. The same goes for us as well. How many of us are aware of what is really happening in CHT? I will urge to the journalist to do some work in that area and write about it so that we do not end up being the criminals we are condemning.
Bottom line, I don’t have any hatred for anyone. Why should I, or any other Bangladeshi, for that matter? We won the war. We lost a lot of our brothers/sisters/relatives in the process (esp. due to the mismatch in power - a trained army with tanks, automatic weapons and air support with a viscious agenda vs. teachers/students/farmers/teenagers with .303, fighting for the love of the country and independence), but I feel good about the result. It’s too unfortunate that the world doesn’t know half the truth about ‘71.
We, as human beings, should have an open mind and try to understand things for what they are. I will request my Pakistani friends to do the same as well. At least do a little research and understand the truth. It hasn’t been that long since ‘71, people from that generation are still alive. They can recount the horror stories of that time first hand, and every other Bangladeshi family has had some casualty in the war. It is an issue very close to our heart, and issuing blanket statement without knowing the truth is not very helpful. It is like denying the Holocaust, the person doing it doesn’t even feel anything. Think of the 5 year old who lost his entire family, its not easy for him to be friends with someone like that.
Just my 2 cents, please feel free to disagree.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:44 am
Zain,
Your post is typical of many Pakistanis who somehow feel “pain” at the loss of Bangladesh. You say “we have gotten” over 71. What a nonsensical and offensive comment. You have nothing to get over, as it is the West Pakistani army that murdered hundreds of thousands and the Islamabad regime which kept billions, which are still owed to us, whilst ensuring that we kept part of our debt. We, Bangladeshis were the ones who suffered.
I am not even speaking about things on a political level, but on a social and cultural level. I and many other Bangladeshis I have spoken to be it from Australia, the UK, the middle east all speak of Pakistani racism towards Bengalis. For me 1971 is not really the crucial factor in all this, since we cannot blame a nation for what an army does. However the same sort of racism that Pakistanis have towards Bengalis before 71 still continues and exists in Pakistan where lighter-skinned Punjabis look down on darker-skinned Mohajirs, who in turn like many other Pakistanis view Bengalis as inferior.
I am a proud Muslim and do not want to have anything to do with so-called “Muslims” who have an inherited pre-Islamic Brahmanic-Hinduism (there are different varieties of Hinduism) racism stemming from their pre-Islamic pagan past.
I mixed with Pakistanis in the Islamic scene here in London and find them quite racist and life is better without having to deal with them.
As for 71, the Pakistan army has used fighter jets against its own people, bombed mosques in NWFP, murdered civilians, raped women and so forth. The Pakistani “intelligentsia” speak of “their” (how ironic) pain of 1971 but turn a blind eye to the genocide in Balochistan.
To repeat Pakistan is a failed state, a state whose collapse is imminent and whom the entire world will be a much better place, without.
Regards.
-Gulshan.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
Fariha, welcome to the UV fold. And a great post too - certatainly something very different from the usual subjects. Looking forward to many more.
Rumi bhai/Zafar, on the generational change and the anti-Indian/anti-Pakistani feelings, couple of points.
1. Zafar asked, when India-Pakistan plays, who do most Bangladeshis support? In 1985, there was a hockey tournament in Dhaka where Pakistan played India in the final. The support for Pakistan was overwhelming in the stadium. I saw the highlights of the India-Pakistan cricket match the other day on tv. It seemed to me that the crowd actually favoured India. At the very least, Indian support has gone up a lot, Pakistani support has fallen, in the past quarter century. Generational change? You tell me.
As an aside, just a few days prior to the hockey final, Pakistan beat Bangladesh in a last minute goal. On that day, hardly anyone supported Pakistan. It was the first time I heard thousands of people shout Joy Bangla. Generational change works in many ways. I saw Bangladesh beat South Africa in last year’s world cup with a few hundred Deshi students last year. I didn’t, however, hear the slogan. I didn’t hear Bangladesh Zindabad either. Bangladesh - eitukui ki enough na?
2. There may be lot more anti-Indians in Bangladesh than anti-Pakistanis. But how many Indian channels does a typical Dhaka family get? And how many Pakistani channels are there? It’s not like there is any censorship or ban on Pakistani channels. Cablewallahs don’t show Pakistani channels because no one wants to watch them.
These are broad social trends independent of our personal friend circles. India looms large over our consciousness because, well it looms large over us physically - just look at the map. This means, like it or loath it, there is no way to avoid India in Dhaka. As a result, even those who habitually hate India sometimes conced something positive about India, and even the most ardent Bharat-premi is not oblivious to some negatives. On the whole, this makes for a mixed feeling.
Pakistan on the other hand is a distant country. And for most in my generation, and even more so in Fariha’s generation, the distance is not only physical, it is also historical. At least my generation got to see Imran Khan, Fariha’s, and the generation born in the 1990s, got only the cheats. Even the Islamist folks (Jamaat, qaumi madrassahs, Hizbul Tahrir) don’t particularly care about Pakistan. So it’s little surprise that if there is any feeling towards Pakistan, it’s not a positive one for the younger generation.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Thanks Jyoti bhai.
Asif bhai, I don’t disagree with the wider notion that with respect to Pakistani sentiments about ‘71-”the common people are not even aware of the facts”.
This is perhaps true, because we are also so far from them today- historically, geo-politically(much to MUA’s chagrin) and culturally. It would be fair to say that the common people of Bangladesh don’t know much about Pakistan either. I have a college degree and internet connection, but I really didn’t know much about Pakistan till last year when I attended a seminar on regional cooperation. I didn’t know that the Urdu-speakers are called Muhajirs or that they have a language/dialect called Seraiki which has great literature.
However, I will disagree with ” I seriously doubt that Pakistanis have a slightest bit of regret for what they did in Bangladesh”.
I disagree with your statement because, in my humble opinion, it’s sweeping and is too broad a generalization. When you say ‘Pakistanis’ you are talking about a nation divided- across generations, races and mind-sets. Whether they have any idea is also dependent on how much access they have to information on 1971.
The Pakistanis I met during the trip aren’t the first one’s I’d met in my life(sorry to disappoint some). So, it wasn’t just a few people, met over a few days. But during my first visit, I actually got to meet common Pukhtuns, Balochis and Kashmiris for the first time. I met people from the tribal agencies where the government is just setting up schools.
I’ve reiterated this again and again that the KEY REASON why the common Pakistanis ‘feel’ for us is the self-perpetuating CLASS STRUGGLE. The ruling class, regardless of which race they belong to, are mostly former/current feudal lords or army officials and the working class are the poor people(mostly Balochis, Kashmiris, Pukhtuns,Hazaras and some Muhajirs)who continue to be deprived of their economic and social rights. As Gulshan pointed out, the blood of these people have been shed in the ruling class’s quest for power, especially in Balochistan and NWFP. Therefore, I would think twice before grouping both sides together in their feelings for ‘71. In between exists a smaller, diverse group of ‘moddho-bittos’ who know some about ‘71 and understand that
‘what happened shouldn’t have happened’. They also hate watching their own country fall apart into provinces or states, even today, but these are NOT the people at the forefront.
Now to the point of information. The ruling class, have better access to information. But they are the ones who committed the crimes in the first place. The working class, on the other hand, have no access to ‘facts’ about ‘71 genocides, but they know enough about their present condition to at least have a fair idea of what the Pak Army, backed by their ruling class of elites (who aren’t just Punjabi btw..Bhutto was from Sindh) is capable of doing to any ethnic group that does not concede with the mainstream ‘decisions’. Some segments of the educated middle-class have actually been quite vocal in protesting the ‘71 genocides and blaming their govt for it(http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/?page_id=53)
So, yes, I stand by my initial points, the misinterpreted premise of this post:
1) We don’t really know much about how EVERYONE in Pakistan feels about 1971 genocides
2)There are people, among the common, working class and the educated middle-class, who actually feel genuine remorse for the genocides of 1971 and readily apologize to Bangladesh for the violent crimes of Bhutto, Yahya and the Pakistan army, which they don’t support in any case.
If information is the barrier to sensitizing Pakistanis about the racism, economic deprivation and ultimately the genocide that we had suffered at the hands of their past rulers,then I would say adopting the ‘Holocaust awareness’ way is the way to go. And I don’t just mean Trial for War Criminals. But seminars, talks and conferences in Pakistan about what had happened to us from 1947 to 1971. If the civil society(just felt Zafar Bhai cringe, again) of Pakistan and Bangladesh are equally willing, this is a real possibility. Right now, the strongest segment of the combined CS is SAFMA. (From what I see)They are a real tight-knit group and respect each others history and sovereignty. PK government is also encouraging more people to people contacts, giving scholarships to Bangladeshis in the fields of Medicine, IT and Engineering( I believe the annual quota is 100).Let’s keep the conversations going.