Tue 25 Sep 2007
Fascinating article in today’s NYT, which can be summed up in a single line: India is outsourcing outsourcing.
Key quote:
One of the constants of the global economy has been companies moving their tasks — and jobs — to India. But rising wages and a stronger currency here, demands for workers who speak languages other than English, and competition from countries looking to emulate India’s success as a back office — including China, Morocco and Mexico — are challenging that model.
There are at least a dozen countries mentioned in this article - China, Morocco, Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Portugal, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Czech Republic, Thailand, Poland, Philippines. All of them are getting in on the back-office outsourcing game. And yet, there is no mention of Bangladesh. You would think that there would be the minimum IT/language competencies in Bangladesh to claim a slice of this outsourcing pie. But it doesn’t appear to be the case, at least from this article. This, in and of itself, deserves a post asking just where our political/economic leadership has failed that we must struggle to attract investment and jobs against the likes of Romania and Morocco. Where are they today, those cultural ‘leaders’ and political panderers who used to beat the jingoistic drum of Shorbo-starey bangla chai and who in the process denied entire generations of young Bangladeshis the access to English which would have allowed them to compete on a level playing field?
With the bottlenecks that India is running up against, any nation that shows initiative and provides the environment for the outsourcing business can expect to be richly rewarded. And yet, as ever our bosses are asleep at the wheel. 30 years after the garments industry took off, how far up the value ladder have we been able to climb?
September 25th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
There was never any clash between the requirement for Bangla in civil admin and our need for language skills (in English as well as Bangla). There are plenty of studies indicating proficiency in one language in itself leads to proficiency in a second language. Unfortunately, our students never got to be proficient in Bangla.
The whole educational system has been under attack, NOT from “cultural leaders” — but from Majid Khan type semi-literate bureaucrats under the active guidance of military rulers Zia and Ershad, and then later throughly destroyed by the BNP-Jamati thugs who were never qualified to pass High School themselves.
Instead of playing the blame-game, propose what we can do to fix the problem. It’s never too late, even if it is already “very late.” See my proposition under the “Open Thread”, e.g.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:37 am
As a software professional working in the US industry, I have seen several instances of the advantage of the Indians against the Chinese due to the their proficiency in English. So, it is a factor to consider.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:53 am
I agree with Nirbashito about poor proficiency in Bangla however beg to differ with his blaming BNP-Jamaat ( joto dosh nondo ghosh!!) . Fact of the matter is our educational quality started going downhill right from early seventies. Post secondary institutions’ quality were never in high priority. All along government policies were for primary or secondary education and even then it was quantity before quality. It is only recently that quality of SSC and HSC got better. Main reason for focusing on primary and secondary education was the aid money. Huge sums were available by using the buzzwords for development aid while our universities were used for political grounds. As a result, overall quality suffered at all levels. If you take an average university graduate in BD and tell him/her to write an essay or report on a current event, I wonder how many could show the required skill level - even in bangla. This is same with any technical/vocational institutes. You will have a hard time finding a good electrician or plumber. English proficiency is even worse. Just notice the quality of english in some of the satellite tv channels from Dhaka. It really shows when Daily star or BD Observer headlines are read.
Going back to the posting by Zubaer. Note that all the countries you mentioned have decent university education regardless of their english proficiency, e.g. Morocco is arabic/francophone country , and similarly south american countries do not have much proficiencies in english than India or Philippines. The common thing among of all these countries is that all have good internet infrastructure. And that is the key. Good quality high speed internet is still very costly in BD. We have fibre optic connection from chittagong but overall connectivity within the country is very poor and on the other hand WiMax ban (except exclusive right by Grameen Solutions)will make it worse. This lack of IT infrastructure combined with poor post-secondary education is the key obstacle to IT growth, IMO.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:08 am
In my last reading, India’s 2006 outsourcing revenue was $20 Billion, Pakistan $1 Billion, and Bangladesh only $80 (M) MILLION.
I have close contacts with a few Bangladeshis in USA, who went to BD and invested heavily in outsourcing, but all returned disappointed - complaining mostly of a corruption/ethics mess, that was hard to override.
Hopefully new national anti-corruption policies will improve the conditions there.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:56 am
Just a clarification: I blamed BNP-Jamaat for the completing the gutting process of our general education system, not just Bangla or English language curriculum. Their ultimate goal was to bring the general system down to the level of Madrassah education, but it was prevented thanks to the relentless lobbying efforts of a few brave souls like M Zafar Iqbal and many private citizens. Yes, the truth can be pretty ugly for Nanda-Dulals…
September 26th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
IMO Bangladesh IT cannot be compared to Romania. Romania has been connected to high-speed internet cables for a long time while Bangladesh started using high speed connection only last year.
Reliable internet access is a major component of outsourcing IT projects. Romania has a very capable IT workforce silently servicing US and other countries efficiently for a long time and earning revenues for their country.
I have worked with Romanian Opensource IT professionals and can recommend them highly.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Bangladesh education system broke down once students started to pass exam without any real education. It started right after the Independent war. If we continue the blame game it will not solve problem. If we are looking for a solution blame game should not be a part of it. At least it shouldn’t be a part of an intellectual discussion.
We have to understand, why Dr. Kudrat-e-Khoda’s proposal couldn’t be implemented. I think his proposal wasn’t relevant to Bangladesh context and Bangabandu government couldn’t implement it. That is why, suggestions from ‘brave soul’ like Dr. Jafar Iqbal, is irrelevant in Bangladesh. These intellectuals are disconnected with the masses. Bangladesh needs a solution that is inclusive to all people. Only then we may involve public and produce genuine result.
Let’s look at what happened with PA’s silly cartons. In my understanding, this whole incident shows the most dangerous problem of Bangladesh, a clear division among people. It shows the disconnection between educated elite with general public. Thought of Bangladesh could go forward without the help of others is the slow poison that could kill this nation, unless one group finishes off the other in time.
Whether one like it or not majority of Bangladeshis likes to see religions are being taught in the education systems. Bangladeshis don’t need so called general education or madrasha educations. It should have a modern education with religious base moral foundation where ideas may flourish. Without such education Bangladesh will continue to produce secular extremist as well as religious extremists. Therefore, making it a battle ground for domination.
Bangladeshis are nostalgic about the past and forget that a nation does not keep the same characteristics at all time. We can look at Turkey or Russia. Changes are taking place right in front of our eyes. Country’s character changes with the people and education builds peoples’ character. Once we have a good education system in place in a few years we will be talking how to use the educated work force.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:05 am
abuwardha: we need to keep the “blame game as part of the solution” so that we don’t repeat the same mistakes of the past. In that regard, your comments on the Kudrat-E-Khuda commission’s recommendations are interesting (to say the least): could you please elaborate why it could not be implemented and why it is not suitable?
Re: Dr. Zafar Iqbal’s “disconnect” and “irrelevance” — that is even more bold! Now I’m really interested in understanding your point of view. Alternatively, please enlighten us a bit more on what could be a “more inclusive” educational system. Also, exactly what do you mean by a “modern education with religious base … where ideas may flourish?” Which/whose religion would that be?
And talking about the “educated elite”, you may be forgetting the simple fact that the well-spring of educated Bangladeshi middle class is still our rural — “not-so-elite?” — middle or lower middle classs. Are you implying once they are in the big city for their higher education they forget their roots?
I don’t think that’s what you’re hinting at: your real motive in diverting this discussion shows when you mention the “silly cartoon incident”: let me propose that the “most dangerous problem for Bangladesh” is NOT the division between its educated and uneducated (I don’t deny there may be a division); but it is the “disconnect” between a generally religious (but moderate, secular at heart) people and our rabid, un-enlightened, self-proclaimed Mullahs — or demagogues in the guise of “clergy on a pulpit” that’s the real danger!
Thankfully, secular extremists have become almost extinct in BD. Therefore, it is doubly urgent that we now also stop these fanatic Mullahs from “battling for dominance”. Otherwise we’ll achieve neither the “technical advances” focused on in this blog, nor a sound moral* or educational framework for general progress (reduction of poverty and crime; improved standard of living; basic education beyond just literacy for all).
___________
* That religion does not provide for a good moral foundation is in plenty evidence all around you: just look at all those ghush-khor magistrates and politicians showing up in beautiful punjabi and tupi at the mosques on any given Friday, and also at their khatibs making a living on “chanda” raised from these same scum-bags, while everybody knows what’s going on!
September 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
#8 (নির্বাসিত) couldn’t agree with you more on your analysis, forget about IT, if we don’t challenge the “fanatic Mullahs” NOW, we will loose any opportunities for any real development, at a recent strategy meeting (mostly geared towards IT initiatives & standardization) with some of the global heads of one of the largest financial institution in North America I had conversation with few key player on the sidelines regarding outsourcing some work to Bangladesh, rest assured they were keenly aware of the political and social development of the country and their outlook were not favorable to say the least, forget about any new initiative if we don’t stop the slide now we will remain a basket case for the unforeseeable future.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Thanks NirBashito for your comments. I see your points on blame game being part of the discussion. My understanding is blame game takes discussion to a different direction.
Anyway, coming back to our discussion on Dr. Khuda commission, I thing Khuda commission recommendations was a step toward a progressive secular education system. Bangabandu government did not dare to implement it simply because public wouldn’t accept it. We know from the past, when public did not like the British education they rejected it altogether than started madrasha education. Government understood, secular education would be rejected by public and could have backlashes. So they continued the current lame education system. But if the commission included religious education in the proposal, it would have been easy to implement and government could steer the education overtime toward the direction they envisioned. (Moral educations of all religions are mostly similar.) Eventually, that education could have minimized the growing division in the society (as you mentioned.)
In my mind, all Bangladeshis are one. Their future is tight with each other. No matter how backward or fanatic a group among them, intellectuals should plan to include everyone in the process and let Bangladeshis grow as a nation. Unfortunately, we often try to change things so abruptly that it causes commotion and backlashes. Ultimately, whole plan fails.
Secular intellectuals in Bangladesh are very possessive. They are so adamant to hold on to their ideas that they become disconnected with the ordinary Bangladeshi. An example, for say Ahmodia issue, majority of Bengali Muslim scholars think they are non-Muslims. Secular community doesn’t need to get into an argument of whether they are Muslims, but they should have worked with the community to safe guard Ahmadia community’s interests regardless of them a part of Muslim Ummah. By putting themselves on the other side of perceived Bengali Muslim interest, secular intellectuals are suspected as anti-Islam and thus, their ideas become irrelevant to under educated Muslim majority. Sorry to say, Dr. Zafar Iqbal is also part of these intellectuals, (even though, I love his writings.)
(It may not be right, but) I clled ‘intellectuals elite’ because they are isolated from public opinions. It seems they go above and beyond to prove how separate they are from ordinary Muslims.
I thank you for supporting my notion of failed general and madrasha educations by pointing out corruptions are being committed by both. One of these educations is creating corrupted public and the other one is creating unemployed baggers. Only way out of this situation could be an education system which will create morally sound, creative individuals, where people could even learn higher education in religion to satisfy the need of a religious education. Best part is it will be in the design of government education commission.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
I wouldnt knock romanian and morrocan societies as being lower than us, perhaps they are a lot less drunken with development dollars than us.
Small point on history. madrasa education didnt start when the british came. When they came and removed the farsi language from government we were rather annoyed by these heathen marauders and turned away, for better and worse.
Then the independence struggle of 1857 went belly up and you get a few different adaptations and the spectrum ranges from modernist (syed ahmed khan and alighar) to preservative (deoband.. that’ll be your quaomis). In between you get Dar Al Nadwa in Luchnow and the aliya madrassas, by 1912 dhaka univerisity becomes the Alighar spin-off of relevance to us.
This is a technical issue and though i know of senior madrassahs anxious to set up science and IT departments its actually not their remit. Paradigm shifting breakthroughs in islamic jurisprudence are not Dr Zafar Iqbals remit either. A good society would help them(experts) reach higher standards in their disciplines of focus not expect to somehow squeeze orange juice from the udders of a cow.
World class software and computational businesses are the remit of the BUET, the upgraded UETs and DUs IBA and probably maths and physics departments. You know, where the intelligent less loaded students go to be ruined.
It is a bit too early to judge the private BBA and IT conveyor belts, but I really hold out hope for the elite institutional products coming out and busting a glorious gut.
Somebody who has money and some discernment could make a lot more money exploiting the frustrated intellectual talents in Bangladesh. perhaps they already are, but quietly to avoid hingsha.
Sometimes its a fine art student that pulls of a wonderful streak of lightning like refresh 360, who make 3d animation for the latest generation console games.
Another amazing Bangladeshi tried his luck with 7th sense software, http://www.seventh-sense-software.com/ . they used to give decent C++ programming lessons and all sorts of things.
If bangladesh is to have a niche in the high tech, i think it will be at the creative end of things and despite the government and a society containing unrestrained intellectual dacoits.
Government can help a little, but fundamentally the individuals with potential need to find eachother and produce good competetive work, not just inbreed with eachother via the dhaka chamber.
There will be no pity and sympathy to keep the IT sector afloat and stagnated like the RMG sector. Folks in the west are already annoyed with losing their jobs to india and having to speak with call centers there.
BASIS already provide a service, as do the International Maths Olympiad crew and even the BoB Professionals in london have pitched in to link smes.
The islamic development bank has provided IT professional goodies, which have been appreciated by the small ‘hi’ ‘tech’ nexus that exists, but its not enough.
Senor Kudrat-e-Khuda worked WAY WAY WAY before the microelectronics and software explosions so his religion blind script cant really be blamed for this one.
India is helping alot of our skilled techi academics individually. Because of lack of appreciation of learning and science GoB doesnt equip out labs and departments with what they need, so our people go next door to get (any)work done. Not exactly in the national interest but it happens.
Whoever runs for election next needs to have a few high and mid ranking people who know a thing or two about science, society and enterprise and can get things done, and tell those simian creatures in the planning commission to stop automatically docking PCs from every proposal they get their ruddy hands on.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
abuwardha: If the biggest problem with Qudrat-e-Khuda’s recommendations was its secular nature, then I have nothing further to discuss with you. You will probably label me as one of those elites.
Let me just point out to you that there may be elites (as per your definition) everywhere. There are elite politicos, elite thugs, elite secretaries, and elite Khatibs… none of whom cares much about the rest of us. Right now, the only elites that seem to matter are in the Cantonment, and I have no reason to believe they are any better trained or better “armed” than the “ordinary Bangladeshi” (as per your def) to tackle our critical problems. On the other hand… just because someone is an “intellectual” — or even “secular” and “disconnected” — should not disqualify him/er from trying to find solutions to our critical problems. After all, most of the Bangalee nation’s claims to glories are thanks to these secular intellectual types (except for the Liberation War, perhaps).
You also never responded to my query on whose/what religion should be the basis of our “moral education” that you keep harping about.
Finally, lest you get a false sense of back-patting… I did not blame our education system for “creating corrupted public.” I also think Madrassahs (esp its only income generating products, i.e. commercial maulvis) have been the single biggest impetus for this all pervasive culture of corruption in our society. Their (the maulvis’) spiritual deficiencies are also widely felt, if not also correctly diagnosed as such: the rise of fanaticism and fundamentalism being its primary symptom.
I would blame our education system (as some others here have done) for failing to provide the basic skills, especially language (Bangla & English) and the humanities (arts; history; philosophy) — stuff that are needed as much as science & math for not only making a living, but also for *rational* thinking and successful *exchange* of ideas. I just don’t see how a “higher education” in “religious education” might be of any use, especially in a global economy, unless it is totally focused on one’s “spiritual” (i.e. private, as opposed to public) needs.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
One piece of first hand information I can share with you why it is difficult to set up outsourcing business in Bangladesh compare to India. Some of us made an attempt back in 2001-2002 timeframe, whole lot of work was going to Hyderabad, India at that time, so we thought setting up a small office in Dhaka, with 4-5 developers, doing a single project as an experiment. The difference could not be clearer between Dhaka vs Hyderabad. The biggest blocker was internet speed, you just can’t stay synchronized with rest of the team in North America. Within few months it became clear Hyderabad guys already making significant contributions, while Dhaka devs are way behind schedule. Second issue was lack of uninterrupted electricity, you can’t do your job when you have to live without power 4-5 hours a day. People do outsourcing for a profit, none of the big businesses here in North America are doing outsourcing as part of charity work. So by six months when it become clear Dhaka office won’t be able to keep up we had to rollback our operations in Bangladesh. And also there were some people issues that must be mentioned, finding a CS grad from xyz university isn’t difficult in Dhaka, what is near impossible is finding a person that can do the job. We interviewed people from Khulna University, some BITs, private universities, but to tell you the truth most don’t even come close to the bar needed. I don’t know how they got their bachelors degree, some with apparently good gpa. We hired two 4th year student from BUET (among other people), who seem to be better at coding, but completely lacked commitment and accountability. If they said they would do this by 7 days, you won’t be getting any output until two weeks, emails will be ignored, will have pathetic excuses later. So that’s what I saw 5 years back. Things might have changed now, might have improved, then things have improved in Hyderabad too. Most blame should go to BNP-Jamat right leaning govt, first BNP govt ignored submarine cable, this time around delayed it as much as they could. Similar thuggish behavior in VOIP sector. Unless and until we have a progressive look at these issues, we will always stay many steps behind Hyderabad, Bangalore, Bucharest, these days even Karachi.