Sat 23 Jun 2007
Maneeza Hossain recently came out with a Hudson Institute White Paper on the current interim administration’s impact on democracy in Bangladesh and the radical
Islamist agenda in Bangladesh. While it seems to be geared towards a Capitol Hill audience, you can download a copy of the paper here and evaluate the paper for yourself. However, if you’re interested in spoilers and some quick comments, read on.
Ms. Hossain motivates her piece by putting the current situation in Bangladesh in context, relating the importance of a moderate Muslim majority country as a democratic model in the global war on terror, and warning the reader about how the current BD administration’s extra-constitutional and undemocratic actions are strengthening the hands of militant fundamentalists – intentionally or otherwise.
She refers to the current interim administration – a little melodramatically – as the New Order. The reasoning behind this new label for the government goes something like this: the current administration is unlike any that has existed in the Bangladeshi political sphere – neither fully civil and constitutional nor completely martial and extrajudicial. As she puts it quite neatly “The New Order can argue that it is not in breach of the Constitution. It can equally be argued that it is extra-constitutional because it is in territory uncovered by the Constitution.”
Ms. Hossain warns that by suspending the democratic process and legitimizing extra-constitutional governance, this New Order of technocrats and the military is legitimizing an anti-democratic “Islamist agenda”. While I may be dropping a lot of loaded terms in this summary (Islamist agenda, New Order, etc), the author does a bang up job of walking us through what she means by them, for the most part.
Despite it being very well written, there are a couple aspects of the paper that I find a little ambiguous and at times disturbing – such as the tacit approval of the military’s role in Turkish democracy or implying that the World Bank should be pushing for political reform.
For starters, while Ms. Hossain’s piece is about the New Order and its unintentional benefits to the Islamist movement, it fails to capture the complexity of the situation on the ground. While she’s quite clear about what she means by the Islamist movement (radical politicized Islam with mostly anti-democratic intentions), she is not so clear about who is actually in the Islamist movement in Bangladesh, or how they are a threat to democracy, in concrete terms. By referring to “the Islamists”, the paper gives the impression that the Bangladeshi radical political Islam is monolithic. It is my understanding that political Islam in Bangladesh comes in many shapes and forms spanning a spectrum of outfits – from the radicalized militant to the enlightened pragmatic – with a wide range of backgrounds, leaderships, and agendas. The broad treatment that Ms. Hossain gives the topic, especially when the paper is geared towards an audience with policy-making power, can be potentially dangerous for Bangladesh.
For example, when I think of the type of Islamist threat the paper discusses, I immediately think of Harkatul Jihad, Juma’atul Muhahedin, or the JMJB. Leaving out these groups, Ms. Hossain’s idea of the Islamist threat to democracy seems to revolve around the Jamaat-e-Islami, and how its hand has gotten stronger because of the caretaker government. I am no fan of the JI, but I believe that in its current incarnation, the JI is pragmatic enough to engage in BD realpolitik and democracy as much as any other party that’s on the field right now. Given limited resources and political/diplomatic capital, should the USA and other international actors be more concerned with groups like the JI – a party that is a willing participant of the democratic process – or with groups like the JMB that are clear and present threats to regional stability?
There are a few other concerns that I have with this paper, and I can’t shake the feeling that it is too simple a treatment of a much more complex issue. However, Ms. Hossain does drive home the point that the longer the caretaker government acts outside the democratic process as an extra-constitutional entity, its’ reforms will lack the punch they need, and will only serve to further subvert BD democracy. I’ll give her props for highlighting this point and I’ll let you be the final judge of the paper for yourselves.
Photo by Kazi Huq: Spring 2004. Rickshaw art highlighting Osama.
June 23rd, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Thanks Amer to bring this issue in picture.
But Yes I feel Jamate Islami is the biggest
danger for our country. Basically I think JMB and all are nothing but puppet. In last some
years if we followed up every report on the print media We will find that JMB members are
directly or indirectly related to Jamat (Rokon and all).
Nijami openly told ” Bangla Bhai is the creation of Media.” Later on they simply denied the whole thing.
Basically Jamat is the party which is getting benefit from administration all the time.
Basically Point is that we all are speaking today about the nomination business of AL ,BNP and JP . We are speaking about Minus three.
But have we ever spoken about the source of the money of Jamat. So Many Clinic and Institutions were build which is owned by Jamat itself and those are profitable organizations. some days back I did have a very lively discussion with fellow Brilliant
blogger Asif Y about the democracy on middle east.Here lies the real threats.
To be very honest I believe that to run the election any major party of the world need donations. Most important part is now where is the source?
Now Jamate-E-Islami which did not have any
bright history,where is their source to spend money in election. what is the function of Islamic NGOS. is any proper transparency is followed up as Proshikha , BRAC and others.
Amer I am agreed with you they are coming on electoral process but It is very important to know about Source of the huge fund of Jamat.
Because To me Terrorism is the biggest corruption.
June 23rd, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Corruption breeds poverty, and poverty breeds extremism, whatever its form. That’s why, islamic militancy was on the ascendancy in the pre-1/11 period. This militancy is bound to be on the decline now for the same reason, as a logical result of the anti-corruption crusade currently being waged on. Western support to the ‘New Order’ is also based, I think, on the same logic, I mentioned at the outset.
I am not surprised, however, that Maneeza, known to be giving shelter now to his absconding father Anwar Hossain Manju in Washington, is sermoning otherwise.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:42 am
The scenario drawn in the paper is mainly based on assumption. More fact could have been made it realistic.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:56 am
Thanks to Amer for the posting and link to the paper.
The author paints the BD islamist landscape with a single, broad stroke . It has monotonous tone and like a broken record mentions repeatedly the Islamist’s gain by the current CTG actions termed as “New Order”. It reminded me of how the words “Terrorist”, “9/11”, “Iraq” were used in the speech to justify the Iraq invasion. I agree with the author that democratic institutions must be restored but she sidestepped pre-January chaos in the name of “democracy” and remained very theoretical throughout . So strong was her opposition to the Army backed “Extra-constitutional” takeover, it shows her failure to understand the practical reality on the ground.
She obviously is coming from an extreme secular point-of-view that Islam or Islamism must not be tolerated at any cost . This is seen in her tacit acceptance of Turkish model as valid but discouraged alternative. I was just floored by her comment on how the Islamist are gaining ground by current CTG’s ban on political activity because
“No longer can the two (AL & BNP) parties “hire” thousands of demonstrators for “street theater” manifestations during “hartals,” the politically motivated general strikes. Indeed, the loss of that income to the extent it causes hardship may lead to grassroots discontent with the New Order. That may help Islamists in their quest political power.”
As seen in comments many bloggers, Ms Hossain is not happy with lack of evidences of corruption and absence of JI leaders in anti-corruption drive, so she goes on to expose the connection by defining corruption. The first one is the kind of corruption that we know of - Babor’s and Tareque Zia type. Second type of corruptions, as she put it, diversion of public project for spending on the constituencies for “community benefit” and that the Islamist are guilty of it. I think we wouldn’t be in this “NEW ORDER” mess if our MPs “stole” money to spend it on their constituencies without diverting to their bank account. She urged the existing political leaders to rise to “higher level”. I’m sorry I do not see Jalils and Babors and those politicians who are still left on the street side of the jail wall rising to higher level. I am just hoping for a term limit so that they can be flushed out as well. The author balked at the idea of “home grown democracy” as something to be very suspicious of but has no problem with CTG concept. Last time I checked, it was also a “home grown” concept.
She paints the BD Islamists as “ vote them in power, say good-bye to elections forever” without any example of such anywhere in the world and without any regard to democratic culture in BD. In its opposition to existing BD situation, it took a very cheap and opportunistic path by connecting it to Boogeyman du jour because it grabs attention and ticks the power that be. It is EXACTLY what Musharraf is doing to justifying his rule.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:20 am
Amer, I haven’t read her paper yet, but can’t help asking you, why should you say something like “…..JI – a party that is a willing participant of the democratic process ….”? Jamat? A willing participant of democratic process?
JI is a much bigger threat for BD’s democracy for the long haul. It had been spreading its roots since 1971 (or probably since the establishment of Muslim League). On the other hand the radical off shoots like JMB and HuT are products of the 90s that evolved from the anti west sentiment right after Afghan war. They do not yet have any strong structure in BD, and most of their members work as mercenaries. Their actions are seasonal, highly depended on local sponsors and their need for militia type activities. The HuT strongholds hate the Jamatis and call them Razakaars openly. Not saying that they should not be checked, but the Jamatis are much more dangerous for having their stands in politics and for infiltrating the government institutions already…. even the army.
[edited for relevance and focus of the discussion ]
June 24th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Amer,
Thank you for posting this and YES your observation on the writings are good- specially when you say,” there are a couple aspects of the paper that I find a little ambiguous and at times disturbing”.
Western Universities like critical theories like that specially about thrid world countries and more specifically if the country happnes to a muslim majority country. She wrote in her paper that-”young 0fficers tend to be more religious,and that some have even shown explicit suport for Islamist ideas”- how would she describe the scenerio that prevails in the jail where there is a great demand for the Holy Quran and Hadis from the inmates??? Now most of the Politicians including those (that are on the run and those waiting for thay could be caught later)that abhored the idea of praying and speaking about Allah(SWT)and joked abt religion and were extremely fond of the “Colored Water” that quenched their thirst–all are looking for PIR SHAHEBs to give them special TABIZ so that their SIns can be sanctified and that upon freedom they would be regular in their prayers–All are now trying to memeorize verses of the Quran- to free themselves from present predicament– so are all these cell inmates and
and other Politicans of all hues awaiting to see their actual destiny–becoming Terrorists??Does the verses in the Holy Quran define steps to Terroorism or Salvation?????
“Sharia State”– that she refers to can never happen here as Arabic is not our Mother tongue. For a State to follow Sharia rules -all in the state must be well conversant and understandble about the Language,Arabic which is also the language of the Holy Quran. Many Verses from the Quran serves as Islamic law.
There is also reference that if time table is not set for elections this country would become an Islamist culturist state with dependency on Pakistan model under world bank n UN fundings– thats absolutely HOGWASH as is the theory(not referred here-but is blowing in the wind) that it will become a state dictated by Indian interest. Really this type of people should be taken close to Pabna City.
Bangladesh independence is a reality–wanted by the Bangladeshis and two factors determined that:
1.During the Cyclone of )ct/Nov 1970-the central Government sitting in West remained silent and did not help the Victims of then East Pakistan- UN n some foreign NGOs did some humanitarian work.-This was the eye opner for Bengalis that its time for us to FEND for ourselves– people felt that whatever discrepancy existed then –it was political–what did the common man do that its Government(as still Eastern wing of Pakistan) would help the common victims who were not politically aware of whats going on between the powers that be.
2.The First shot fired on 25th March night determined the fact that East Pakistan is now Independent Bangladesh and all Bangalis were united for INDEPENDENCE.
Yes India helped but it was also Internationally helped and besides that Indiora Gandhi reaped political leverage that it won a landslide victory.
So Bangladesh unfortunately have been a Victim of the see-saw game of politics- and due to bad governance and intention of politics it is in bad shape but it will rise in a NEW form as we are all feeling thsat.
0fcourse we hope that the time frame of 2008 will not be shifted and that Politcians will by then reform themselves and there will be elections ending all controversies. I feel confident that this will successful programme.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Count on common sense of the people of this land: no extremism: right or left, has any place in this deltaic soil.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Beware ‘research’ that comes out of America’s right-wing think-tanks. It’s not too much of a stretch to say that their primary raison d’etre is to perpetuate the American hegemony. So it’s usually a good idea to check on their background. A quote from their Wikipedia article says plenty: “The Hudson Institute is developing programs to propose the political and economic transformation of Muslim nations.” Programs of transformation indeed. Laughable if not for all the tragic consequences. Maneeza’s paper is probably just an opening salvo in this murky business. Our deposits of natural gas will bring us plenty more grief in the future - we should count on it.
More fun in this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_Institute#Notable_trustees.2C_fellows_and_advisors
June 24th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
She is the Manager of Democracy Programs at
The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_the_Defense_of_Democracies
Her professional association will also shed some light on her purview.
The organization she works for is helping the ‘War on Terrorism’ and she apparently helps promote Secular Islam (?????!!!!!!! is that like Religious Atheism or Bush Intelligence??)
June 25th, 2007 at 12:28 am
I think Banglarman nailed it when he points out the basic fallacy in this sort of Western-oriented analysis of Islamist parties: vote them in power and say goodbye to elections. Hasn’t happened in Turkey or Palestine where Islamist parties have won elections. (No, I’m not a closer Jamaati.)
Our elected officials have more material help and legitimacy to Islamist parties and causes than either of our military dictators have (so far). “Anecdotal evidence” suggests that the Bangladeshi military is susceptible to Islamist propaganda? You want to know what MY anecdotal evidence on the Bangladeshi military suggests? That’s the sort of thing where it becomes her word against any of ours.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Amer: Thank you for posting the link.
There is neither a stated nor an implied support for the Turkish model in my paper. Actually, I am quite critical of the role of the army in Turkey as a paternalistic custodian of “secular democracy”.
Nonetheless, the role of the Turkish army, regardless of what we may think of it, has been relatively successful in providing Turkey with political stability. In my brief reference to the Turkish model, I simply warn that this success may not be replicated in Bangladesh.
As to a monolithic portrayal of the Islamist scene in Bangladesh, no such portrayal is intended. Elsewhere, I have described the complexities of Bangladeshi Islamism, but also I have argued that these complexities are leveraged by the main Islamist formation (JI) towards shifting the center of gravity of political discourse in Bangladesh.
In this particular essay, my concern is how the New Order helps the gradual attrition of our already battered democratic tradition.
I am pleased that comments by readers have mostly focused on substance, and urge everyone to avoid the usual guilt-by-association tactic and further focus on the seriousness of the arguments I present. Thank you.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:58 am
I agree, there does seem to be a lot of hot buttons and punchy acronymns being thrown around in this article. This is the first time I’ve heard the Civvie-Military takeover of Jan 11 being referred to as the “New Order”. To use this phrase once would be catchy writing, but to see it used 34 times in a 10 page article gives the impression the writer is hoping it’s a label that might hopefully stick.
The term New Order has connotations with Nazism. Fakhruddin and the Generals are guilty of many things but are they guilty of being fascists? That is an accusation which when used as a rhetorical tool in an essay would itself require a second essay to justify it’s usage.
It also smacks of Godwin’s Law and that is surprising because the Hudson Institute prided itself on its high standards.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:45 am
Remember that famous quote by Galbraith, viz., “Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it’s just the opposite.” So, by implication, both systems are the same. The logical fallacy here is glaring, and the longevity of this quotation is largely attributable to its humorous element.
The Paper by Maneeza Hossain rests on the central theme: “In the context of the New Order, both the military and the technocrats have adopted paternalistic behaviours towards the Nation, in terms that are more in line with the Islamist view than with democratic views.” This theme has 50% in common with the Galbraith quote in the sense that it too is logically flawed, yet without the added witticism.
Just because two actions lead to the same consequence does not necessarily mean that they are identical. A surgeon cuts up people, and so do some murderers. More on this line, the movement for clean candidates was instigated by secular members of civil society. Yet, Jamaat also says the same thing, viz., “Shot lok-er shashon chai.” Case closed.
There is of course a real danger that Islamism would raise its ugly head in Bangladesh. However, the key reason for that is the disillusionment with politics. People need to believe in something. If politics does not provide the solution, many might turn to religion for it.
It should also be pointed out that Islamism would have been in the ascendancy even if the January 22nd elections had taken place. BNP openly promotes political Islam; and let’s not forget the AL-Khelafat MOU.
Political Islam can only be resisted through conscientisation of the electorate and elections — held as soon as it’s feasible. But that’s another subject, and I have to go to work now.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:52 am
Fariha Sarawat in #8:
I don’t see how the author’s professional affiliations detract from an academic reading of the piece. Also, unless I’m looking at an old link, according to the FDD, she doesn’t work there anymore:
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies_show.htm?attrib_id=9728
Maneeza Hossain in #10:
I appreciate you addressing my comments directly and I agree with your assessment that the current administration’s (your New Order’) attempts at reform will eventually prove counterproductive.
Also, my apologies if I misinterpreted your delineation of Islamism in Bangladesh as being monolithic, but by mentioning only the JI by name, you do give the impression that they are the standard bearers of Bangladeshi Islamism. While I myself would probably have a hard time living in a Bangladesh where the JI holds a parliamentary majority, should they win through fair and free elections, then that is a reflection of the will of the people. As long as they aren’t doing anything criminal, does the state and the international community have the right to marginalize them?
I think AsifY put it best: “Our elected officials have given more material help and legitimacy to Islamist parties and causes than either of our military dictators have (so far).”
June 25th, 2007 at 5:14 am
I do not think there is any reason to be alarmed by extremist Islamism/Islamic militancy in Bangladesh if the on-going anti-corruption drive is continued impartially, as the root cause of such extremism, i.e, poverty out of corruption, is supposed to be diluted in that case.
June 25th, 2007 at 8:10 am
The CTG got peoples support in the following reform agenda-
1. Anti corruption drive
2. Democratisations in political parties
If we look at our political parties only two extremist parties, Jamat and CPB hold regular council and election. Life style of the leaders of these two parties is simple and general perception is that they are honest. As of now, left parties are weaker than Islamic parties. So, Islamic parties may get some advantages.
There are huge corruption allegations against the leaders of AL and BNP. We also know that collective decision making is absent in both the parties. CTG now try to promote ‘Minus 2’ formula. If it really happened, what will be the next? To my knowledge, Hasina and Khaleda is the only elected person by the council, the other leaders are nominated by either Hasina or Khaleda. They are still popular in their parties. Some alleged corrupt leaders are now very vocal infavour of ‘Minus 2’ formula for unknown reason. By this process, CTG may fall under allegation of personal victimization and present anti corruption drive may jeopardise.
Yesterday joint forces raided Tarique Rahman’s mother-in-law Syeda Iqbal Mand Banu s’ house in Dhanmondi. I have nothing to say if there is any specific allegation. But I failed to understands that how key persons like Zahiruddin Shawpan, Mofiqul Islam Tripty become clean in the eye of CTG. How person like ex-MP Abul Hossain Khan attend meeting at Mannan Bhuiyan’s house after convicted by court in an arms case just a few week back.
CTG should take action against corruption impartially. In the name of ‘Minus2’, we don’t want to see two groups of corrupt leaders under the leadership of Mannan Bhuiyan and Amu. CTG should take action against all the corrupt leaders, whether he/she infavour of ‘Minus 2’ or not.
Dinkal claim that Syeda Iqbal Mand Banu got notice from task force.
http://www.daily-dinkal.com/details.php?nid=5211&pubdate=2007-06-25
June 25th, 2007 at 10:48 am
Yes corruption is a huge problem. But it is a gross simplification to suggest that corruption, through poverty or by itself, leads to violent acts inspired by political Islam.
Outside the countries directly affected by foreign occupation - Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, Chechnya - violent political Islam hasn’t drawn support from the poor. None of the 9/11 or London bombers were poor. Leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Algerian GIS or Indonesia Islamists are not drawn from the poor (though the foot soldiers might be). It’s the same in Bangladesh.
Political Islam derives its support for many reasons. Among the diaspora youth in the west, a major reason is the rejection of capitalist materialism. In Bangladesh, reaction to globalisation is as strong a reason for the rise in political Islam (as well as general rise in religious observance) as corruption and poverty per se.
The longer we fail to recognise this and continue to insist that the current bhadralok government (see AsifY’s post) will root out corruption and all will be well, the more we fool ourselves.
This is not to argue that globalisation should be opposed. It should not. But its benefits should be better shared, and massive cultural changes it causes should be debated and managed. If these are not done through peaceful politics (see Zafar Sobhan’s post) then they will settled through jihadi violence. Jailing Hasina-Khaleda won’t change this.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Kaiser bhai,
I read it differently than you did. I think the central theme of the paper lies in these lines:
The one real counterweight to Islamism in Bangladesh might be a citizen-centered democratic process. Bangladeshi democracy since 1991 has lacked a “citizen-centered” quality. By suppressing grassroots political activity, the New Order paves the way for Islamist advances.
I don’t think MS. Hossain is saying that the CTG will do this deliberately. In fact, she heaps praise on Fakhruddin and the military in this paper. But the warning of unintended consequence of suppression of political activities is quite real, I think.
The vacuum in political arena is not going to be filled by the Sushil likes of Kamal Hossain or the political likes of Qureshi, it is more likely to be filled by the likes who are more organized in the grassroots level — read Delwar Hossain Sayeedi likes.
Artificial top down quick fix approach towards a long standing problem is bound to create unintended side effects. We need to be aware of it.
So what’s my solution? Political activities in some form needs to start soon. Process of election needs to start soon. Huge step has been taken in making election commission independent and giving crtierions for appointing commissioners. These institution building steps are going to pay dividend in the longer term. Similarly the last steps to free the judiciary from the admin needs to happen asap. These processes of reforms need to happen fast.
What does not need to happen is the activity surrounding “Kings Party”. This is simply wrong priority of the govt. Fix the system so that local solutions to the problem generates rather than focusing on top down approach.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I read this article to gain insight into the idea, expounded by a few regular contributors/commentators to this blog, the assertion that that militarism begets Islamism. We have heard many times that Islamism was greatly revived in the periods of military rule that have periodically gain ascendancy. But having read and re-read the article a number of times I can say that the author has supplied what appears to be nothing more than anecdotal evidence and sketchy conjecture (some of it self-contradictory) to reinforce her argument that the present “military-led” takeover will lead to overt gains by Jamaat Islami because of the evidence provided.
Take for example her point “Islamism propounds a framework for the regimentation of society ie it has an authoritarian strain. The military, where discipline and order are paramount, is inherently authoritarian.”
There is a large straw dog at the centre of this argument, and it is this: There is nothing to suggest that countries which have more than a notional implementation of Shariah law (Saudi Arabia, Iran) are necessarily more disciplined simply because they share authoritarian attributes of militarism. Nor do the military play more than nominal role in the power play in these societies. What the author fails to stress is that Islamism also happens to be non-hierarchical in theory whereas militaries are inherently hierarchical.
She then proceeds to use the examples of Turkey and Algeria to reinforce her case. I think the first rule of using examples is that they should back up your statements. Unfortunately for the author, her example of Turkey and Algeria show that increased militarism has in fact resulted in increased secularism in the armed forces to counteract the Islamist threat. This in facts contradicts her own thesis right from the word go!
There are a couple of ridiculous faux pas as well which should be highlighted:
She maintains that the “New Order” and Islamists have a common goal in fighting corruption. The New Order, she insists, are dangerously approaching Islamist values of zero-tolerance of corruption.
Now this is the kind of shoddy thinking that abounds in this piece. First of all, does the author suggest that corruption should not be tackled because a clean and legal society is *not* a universal ideal but an Islamist one?
The author states:
“Success in implementing such measures can be portrayed by the Islamists as a vindication of their approach”
This is certainly the first I have seen suggested the accusation that fighting corruption plays into the hands of the Islamists. Whereas forcing the population to live in a society riddled with casual and endemic corruption will check the growth of Islamism! This is an unintentionally hilarious position.
Furthermore, to show more clouded thinking on the issue of corruption, the author makes this statement:
“In Dhaka, the engineers of the New Order said they acted against corruption. Such rhetoric plays well with the Bangladeshi grassroots”
Normally, it should please most citizens when governments work against corruption especially the citizens of Bangladesh, for whom the scale and pervasiveness of corruption has been a monumental hindrance to growth. Why should the author should find it noteworthy to assert that the putative “New Order” have suddenly realised that fighting corruption is a popular measure. Surely this is a universally decried failure of Bangladesh and not the sole of the military, the present “Government” nor Islamists. By suggesting that fighting corruption helps the Islamist cause has been one of the most ridiculous statements I have come across.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I dont think ji are likely to be voted for by a third of the people of bangladesh anytime soon. Razakarology and demonology is deeply ingrained in the national scheme of things.
So i find the ‘hurry up for elections’ US line very disingenuous. I want a strong, tough government. Division is not a virtue, but our democratic practice is extraordinarily divisive, because the politicians and the people who back them are irresponsible.
Jealousy ridden political castes are very embarrasing too. The big powers would like a weak leadership that is easily coaxed (though maybe the advisors are at the end of the day?!?).
Party building takes decades, especially in a society like ours which will probably revert to the bnp-al split for the next election.
This generation should take stock of that fact and hope that at least a few good, fair programmes can be set in motion in this short ctg period. rules that make it easier to constructive politics. rules that thwart infantile hate speechy political discourse.
[edited for personal attack ]
June 25th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Sid,
Excellent job of picking out the troublesome arguments in the paper. Almost everything that bothered me at the first reading, you’ve picked out. Some thoughts:
1. While your example of Iran and SA are valid, it is nonetheless true that Islamist political parties are hierarchical in the sense that a small, exclusive oiligarchy controls their agendas and they prefer top-down control of many aspects of individual lives. In theory, they might be non-hierarchical, but this is rarely so in practice. In fact, a certain amount of regimentation even creeps into Islamist parties, in terms of dress and not to mention the ubiquitous facial hair.
BUT, as you rightly point out, this does not necessarily lead to happy relations with militaries. Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Algeria and Jordan come to mind. This is generally the “rule” since decolonization. There are two exceptions: Pakistan and Bangladesh, where militaries and Islamists have a history of collaboration (except for Ayub’s regime). There are many reasons for this, one of which is that Islamists are not seen as part of the democratic process. After 3 elections, Jamaat can hardly pretend not to be. Without waiting and seeing, there is no way to know which way this regime will swing either.
2. Since 9/11 (i hate starting sentences with this phrase but no choice), American foreign policy has understandably fallen less into the Realist mode for which it was famous, and followed more of an ideological mode. Rice and others are trying their best to get the Realists back and the neo-cons out, but that will take time. Realism meant they could cooperate with anyone at any time, from the mujahideen in Afghanistan to the communists in hcina. While this opened them up to accusations on hypocrisy, it also meant that their behaviour followed a predictable model of utility maximisation.
This is no longer the case. Knee-jerk neo-cons are now willing to move against anyone labelled as an “Islamist”. Understandable, but with some unforeseen consequences. It has made American backing very easy to get: just shout “We’ll do something about the Islamists”, and you’ve got it. Musharraf and Mubarak are the kings of this tactic, even as they both daily oversee the Islamisation of society (directly and indirectly, respectively).
So where does this article fit into all this? It’s obviously made for the consumption of the policy-making elite in Washington. The easiest way to get their backing and attention is to present yourself as the alternative of the “Islamists”. By staying silent on the role that civilian politicians played in bolstering the Islamists materially (BNP) and ideologically, the article implies that they are such an alternative and Washington neglects/condemns them to their peril. Which is a pity because the rest of the article really makes sense. If only it had been written from a Bangladesh-development perspective (which would see the bigger danger in corruption than Islamism) rather than from a current US foreign policy perspective (which sees no danger bigger than islamism), I would have liked it even better.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
AsifY
I agree that the article has some good points to make. In spite of the hilarity it engenders, the strident message of warning of the threat of Islamism that Bangladesh faces is well made. It is one of many dangerous contingencies facing Bangladesh that we should all be aware of. But I’m also pretty sure that it is risk that the Fakhruddin Junta are well aware of, although I could be wrong.
It’s just that I find it funny that Washington think tanks are now replacing academic scholarship with polemic of the flimsiest kind. I bet its the sexy stuff like this that gets all the grants nowadays. Given the paucity of end to end logic and the screechy alarmist tone, the article is most certainly aimed at the neocons in Bush’s administration and few others outside.
I’m not convinced that militarism and Islamism are natural power sharers in spite of their mutual wariness of elective democracy. When militaries assumed authority in Bangladesh, they found the quickest route to grassroot networks was via Islamist networks. Militaries are loathe to approach civilian and political networks, the ready made Islamist protocols are a gift from god, so to speak. They’re not natural bed-fellows, they climb into bed with each other but don’t tend to stay there for too long.
The problem with the Islamist parties is that for an ideology that does not recogmise democracy, Islamists are certainly playing the democracy game better than any of the political parties. And they are winning. They are better organised, meritocratic, financially solvent parties that are gaining ground because young people are attracted to them. And young people are attracted to them because they ensure jobs and welfare. They are like a massive union force that political parties have come to turn to increasingly because they have large powerful vote banks that have played the role of kingmaker on more than one election.
Rather than dismiss these parties, I believe their organisational methods, funding mechanisms should be emulated. The don’t work along the patronage based lines of the political parties like AL and BNP. And I think that the way the money trickles down steadily from foreign sources has an impact on their modes of organisation. There’s a PhD in there somewhere.
Perhaps I should apply to the Hudson Institute for funding.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
AsifY, I think you’re Neocons vs Realitists analysis is spot on, btw.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:51 am
I read her piece with great interest and somewhat agree with her analysis, Islamist are the only people that benefits from the debacle of the two prominent political party, even though the current situation seems optimistic for Bangladesh but the future seems bleak and outright dangerous, slowly but surely the country is going through a reformation within its institution and mainstream thought process that is fast evolving from a Bengali identity to a more Islam centric ideology. The Islamist have shown great skills in their strategy in infiltrating every ward of society in an across Bangladesh, their community based programs have given them legitimacies far beyond the two political party. One can only hope and pray that Bangladesh will not become a 2nd Pakistan any time soon.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:15 am
Anthony, how could you say that the Islamic militants do not belong to the poor? In fact, overwhelming majority of such militants like Bangla Bhai, and Abdur Rahman come from the poor or lower middle class background. This is not the case in Muslim countries like Bangladesh only that the poor are getting attracted to extremism. Non-Muslim countries like India are also witnessing hordes of poor youths joining the armed cadres of communist parties. And, this has been the story of human history that the poor take up arms when they find no way to change their lot.
Asif S, I beg to differ with you that the leadership vacuum in Bangladesh is going ‘to be filled by the likes who are more organized in the grassroots level — read Delwar Hossain Sayeedi likes’. I think the real source of power of the likes of Sayeedi is injustice and frustration caused by the rampant corruption that is likely to subside with the on-going anti—corruption crusade. Therefore, the vacuum is rather likely to be filled by the relatively unknown, but decent and pragmatic people who could not do politics because of the reign of black money and muscle power.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:07 am
I agree with Maneeza Hossains assertion that current suspension of democracy will ultimately help a Islamist (The Jamaat Islami type) resurgence in Bangladesh.
But I do not believe this will happen due to simple lack of citizen centric democratic practice.
I believe that main reason for the rise of a Islamic party is the self destructive dangerous political party reform movement of the current regime.
In the name of reform, the parties are being made vulnerable to frequent splits and conflicts. Without Khaleda’s leadership, under somersaulters like Mannan Bhuiyan, Swapon, Tripty, newbees like Gen Mahboob, Osman Faruq , the BNP is bound to be broken into pieces once every six month. Same is expected in AL sans Hasina. And tell me about the new party which has already split into three groups even before its formation. Current state of LDP may act as an example of the future awaiting all these entities.
In this political environment what can you expect out of an election? In terms of total votes, Jamaat will be as strong as any of the fractions of AL/BNP or even the new party. Moreover Jamaat will be the crucial coalition partner for any future government.
Whatever bad we talk about the big Two, these big two have helped stabilize and protect a strong two political party system in Bangladesh. And governments have also been relatively strongly rooted and stable.
And their absence will definitely help Jamaat and ultimately compromise Bangladesh’s national security.
[ There probbaly is an assumption error regarding the military leaddership being the freedom fighters. Current military leadership in BD are all recruited after 1971. Gen Moeen, the current C in C, is a 1975 graduate. The freedom fighter generals have all been purged out of BD armed forces.]
June 26th, 2007 at 5:16 am
Corruption -> causes Poverty
Poverty -> Frustration against Immorality
Frustration -> causes aggression
aggression -> creates “Islamic militancy”
From above, the root cause of “radical islamism” is corruption. It is easier to recruit foot soldiers of Islamic militancy in a corrupt country than in a “cleaner” richer country, because the frustration against immorality is stronger in a corrupt nation.
The Godfather of terrorism may be a rich Emir, but the foot soldiers are often the poorest victioms of corruption, frustrated by immorality (either local extortion or foreign distortion), recruited for money, and shown an escape.
“Democracy” in BD has so far been an immoral attack on the poor - where corruption has been a blatant daylight robbery - and the victims of such immorality in the name of freedom and democracy would have little relief except pent up aggression in the form of militancy.
Any revolt against corruption (by army CTG or whoever) will be seen by the poor as an attack against immorality, which they naturally see as their (corrupt) enemy, and will reduce the nation’s (religious) militancy.
June 26th, 2007 at 6:11 am
Journey to Infinitive, thank you very much for the highly undeserved compliments in post #1. Just saw it.
Rumi bhai, a bit more on the generational differences in the BD military would be very helpful. As you can understand, this is the kind of things we don’t read about in books or the mainstream media. Which way do you think generation 75 leans?
June 26th, 2007 at 6:17 am
Rumi, how can you defend the two-party system for the sake of thwarting Jamaat’s baneful rise? How come you do not understand that AL and BNP had a covert understanding vis-a-vis looting by turn, and not trying the corrupt of each other’s party?? In the name of stability and a strong two-party political system, these two parties actually perpetuated kleptocracy in Bangladesh. How come AL and BNP can protect the national security when the ultimate aim for these parties is looting and looting only???
I believe Bangladesh’s politics is going through a period of transformation, or rather purification, when frequent splits and births of political parties is not unnatural. I do not think there is anything to be alarmed at this, as all these upheavals are likely to lead to a positively stable situation after some time in due course, as the strong stance of the present govt. against corruption is the driving force behind all these upheavals.
June 26th, 2007 at 7:26 am
Looting should not be seen as something synonimous with two party democracy.
Bangladesh has been looted all along, it happened during Ershad’s Godly one party army rule, during BASAL rule etc. Looting eventually gets more rampant during one party rules.
Just remember India. The fraction, coalition and counter coalition culture in Indian politics turned BJP into a mighty big party compared to its original size. India waited patiently (rather than begging the army to save her) and finally BJP is out of power and being dismantled now.
June 26th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Bangladesh has been looted all along, it happened during Ershad’s Godly one party army rule, during BASAL rule etc. Looting eventually gets more rampant during one party rules.
Can we at least agree that looting has actually grown exponentially to breathtaking proportions specifically and wholly in the multi-party “democratic” era of Bangladesh. More so than at any point in its history and certainly dwarfing the scale of corruption during “one-party” autonomic periods.
So if we want to release the Big Two parties from blame of looting by suggesting that it existed long before they were around, then we must also admit that democracy, or the framework that the Big Two operated in, has not been the panacea that we like to make it out to be.
This attitude that the Big Two should be relinquished of blame because corruption is part and parcel of the body poilitic is both defeatist and elitist.
June 26th, 2007 at 10:40 am
And this is nowhere more apparent than in Maneeza Hossain’s article where she, with all seriousness, would like us to believe that Islamists will prosper if the CTG pursue anti-corruption initiatives!
Do not expect to read in any of her Hudson Institute papers the obvious admission that the Islamists have actually benefited from the massive scale of looting and corruption, by the Big Two. Their perpetual siphoning of funds from World Bank and IMF loans into personal bank accounts, and their inability to deliver the most basic services like power and hospitals because the money was openly stolen by politicos might have made young disencganted, disenfranchised to flock to Islamist parties, where they will at least receive free schooling, healthcare and perhaps even a job.
June 26th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Kindly place this in the relevant thread. Here is another WSJ piece on Bangladesh. Law Minister seems lost his mind!
From:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118280548836247571.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
COMMENTARY
Democratizing Dhaka
By COLUM MURPHY
June 26, 2007
DHAKA, Bangladesh — National politics have always been personal in Bangladesh, but never more so than today. It’s been almost half a year since the military stepped in to overthrow a pre-election caretaker government, and installed a new interim government in its place. But as former prime minister-turned-opposition leader Sheikh Hasina asked me in a recent interview: “If you bring reform by force, is it democracy?”
It’s a good question. Most young democracies need several iterations of election cycles and generational change to mature. Bangladesh’s democracy really only began to take root in the early 1990s, and its functioning was, at times, imperfect. Two national political parties dominated: Ms. Hasina’s Awami League and the Bangladesh National Party, led by Khaleda Zia, widow of murdered former President Ziaur Rahman. It’s challenging to find any significant ideological differences between the two — the BNP tends to be more conservative and has found favor among businessmen, while the Awami League has a more secular support base. But both parties have long been driven by the intense personal hatred between the two leaders, not by their platforms. This animosity frustrates many Bangladeshis, who have witnessed the institutions of democracy deteriorate under a cloud of cronyism, nepotism and corruption.
January’s military intervention was designed to put an end to this vicious cycle once and for all. The newly appointed interim government is composed of 10 advisers under the leadership of former central banker Fakhruddin Ahmed. It has promised to organize free and fair elections by the end of 2008 at the latest. But its goals do not stop there. As Mainul Hosein, the caretaker minister of law, justice and information, told me: “No sensible person can advise in support of elections in Bangladesh without emphasizing the need for organizing the democratic system that has fallen into pieces.” In short, it’s back to the drawing board for democracy in Bangladesh.
However, to restore democracy, the military-backed caretaker government has thrown the country into a distinctly undemocratic state, declaring an emergency and banning all political parties. It has also launched one of the most ambitious anticorruption drives the country has ever seen. A recent article in this newspaper estimated that 200,000 people have been jailed since January, and countless others killed or tortured, in the drive to stamp out corruption. Mr. Hosein says “the human-rights situation is much better than it used to be in the past under political government.” Yet reports of human-rights violations and massive arrests, including the detention of more than 160 leading figures including many senior politicians, routinely appear in local and international papers.
Bangladesh is home to around 150 million people, half of whom are illiterate. Annual per capita GDP on a purchasing-power-parity basis is around $2,300 ($1,500 less than in India). Under the current political crisis, inflation has taken root, and prices for many staple goods are rising. It’s a sad state of affairs for a country that holds such economic promise. Bangladesh is blessed with natural resources and a proud and energetic workforce. GDP growth between 2003 and 2006 averaged 6% a year, according to the Asian Development Bank.
If the interim government fails to deliver on its promises it could soon find itself in trouble. And precisely because the caretaker government has set itself such broad and abstract goals, its chances of failure are high. Just getting the mechanics of the election right — creating an updated and accurate voter list; introducing photo identification cards nationwide — will be a task of nightmare proportions.
Nevertheless, Mr. Hosein is adamant that the caretaker government must stick to its goal of overhauling the very system of democracy itself as it exists in Bangladesh. “We need help and cooperation from friends — home and abroad — to restore democracy and not to rehabilitate the corrupt ones who systematically paralyzed democracy,” he said. In his view, Ms. Hasina and Ms. Zia and their “cohorts” are “thieves” who are “illiterate” and “unable even to spell the word ‘democracy.’”
Mr. Hosein’s arguments sound fair and balanced because the caretaker government is targeting senior party leaders from the Awami League and the BNP in equal measure. Confessions secured by such leaders have then been used to instigate additional graft cases against members of these parties. Yet other political parties, such as the Jatiya Party (led by the former military dictator, Hussain Muhammad Ershad), and the Islamist party, Jamaat-e-Islami, remain relatively untouched.
With the Awami League and BNP leaders out of the way, the caretaker government hopes that the parties will launch major reform programs that will put an end to the corruption-prone dynastic politics that have haunted them for decades. But key questions remain outstanding. Namely, is it appropriate for a caretaker government to dictate who can or cannot lead a political party? Wouldn’t the interim government better serve the people by building a robust, trustworthy set of democratic institutions? Even if the “two ladies” are banished from politics, would corruption be wholly eliminated? More seriously, if the Awami League and BNP crumble without their powerfully charismatic leaders, who will fill the vacuum — perhaps an Islamist party such as the Jemaat-e-Islami?
Ms. Hasina certainly isn’t optimistic. “What have they [the interim government] done in the last months?” she asked me, adding that at this rate “it will take thousands of years” for the caretaker government to achieve its goals of delivering true democracy — not the divisive “winner takes all” kind that has plagued the nation in recent decades.
Mr. Murphy is deputy editor of the Far Eastern Economic Review.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Rumi, as you said ‘looting should not be seen as something synonymous with two party democracy’, but the reality is the two-party system has been synonymous with looting in Bangladesh. And, there is no reason to believe that corruption will rise even further if the pseudo-Islamist Jamaat comes to power. So, the two-party political system cannot be justified or supported as better than Jamaat coming to power.
Yes, in India, the Army has not ever been able to dictate its polity. However, this has not helped India in stemming its dangerously widening rich-poor gap either.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:50 am
The attempted analogy with the BJP in India in #30 is entirely false. There is no plausible parallel between BNP-AL’s shameless looting of Bangladesh, and BJP’s rule in India. BJP got kicked out because it was perceived to be promoting the vision of ‘India Shining’ while at the same time ignoring the plight of the rural population. No one has accused the BJP central leadership of large-scale corruption. Vajpayee was widely regarded as a man of strong moral character and integrity. If anything, the rise and fall of BJP is proof that the success or failure of policies still matter when deciding the outcome of elections in India - I’m not sure anyone will make that claim on behalf of Bangladesh. No matter who screws up how badly, our choice is limited to the looters of BNP or the looters of AL.
Also, this hankering after the good old days of two-party politics is a sad and depressing comment on how quickly we forgive and forget. Change’er kono asha’i nai if these emotional ties overrule all else.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Let’s stop making excuses for Big Two Corruption. They have contributed as much to the flourishing of the Islamists by the indirect effect of corruption than by the direct cause of Saudi funding.
There’s a term for what Maneeza and her supporters are doing — it’s called Tu Quoque, and it basically means “Yes I know what I’m doing is wrong, but I’m justifying it because you did it first, and I’m using your immoral actions to excuse my own in response”.
June 26th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Rumi Bhai, there is another problem with your analogy in addition to what Zubaer and Ahbab Aziz are saying about flawed BJP/BNP-AL analagy. India’s institutions - civil, judicial, military - are all much healthier and more powerful than any equivalent institution in Bangladesh. India has never been experienced a coup d’etat, worried about electoral fraud, had their parliament boycotted for years by disgruntled politicians, or had their bureaucracy politicised they way that all that has happened in Bangladesh. I don’t know if our version of the BJP could have just been voted out of office - if it ever gets there.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
If corruption has persisted and gradually increased over the last 35 years regardless of what system of rule was in effect, then the problem is not party or individual specific, isn’t it? Neither it is a problem of any particular system. Neither it is going to be resolved overnight by any artificial solution. Give someone access to a lot of wealth and power and tell him that there is noone to oversee his actions, it will take a lot of will power for him/her not to steal. This is not an excuse. This is a problem in the system.
Herein lies the importance of key institutional reforms that are taking place. EC independence is another thing that was important. ACC independence creates a strong institution but putting a task force on top of it weakened it.
Things in India did not change overnight automatically. Prior to the 1990s, the Indian politicians, like in Bangladesh at present, largely ignored their electoral laws, and India had, as one commentator once said, “the best democracy that muscle and money could buy.” The situation changed drastically with the appointment of the legendary TN Seshan as the CEC in 1991. He greatly invigorated the EC, and almost single-handedly curbed the manipulation of the electoral laws and rules by politicians. Mr Seshan forced candidates to abide by the electoral laws and code of conduct, and strengthened the EC’s supervisory machinery.
If you want to know more about him read this piece
Things improved drastically afterwords. In Bangladesh, we hope against hope that this is the turning point. But as Jyoti mentioned that there is no alternative to politics. The change has to be done politically and by the political parties once the election happens.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Rumi Bhai I am partially agreed with you about the proper due process on the reform of political environment. But I differ about Strength of Jamat as a Political power. It Can maximum play as Shibshena of India. Without BNP strength of Jamat is almost Zero. Basically If we found the political root of Jamat , It is completely based on their Terrorist activities . See as We are from Public universities and we know how Jamat was operating in Chittagong and Rajshahi University.
Basically Jamat did not have any proper transparency about their funding all.
Here is the key. If this source is found ,strength of Jamat is automatically reduced.
Thanks Asif Y. You deserve it.
Tanoy
June 26th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
There is a limit of space and size while you put something as a comment. May be that is why I am failing to comunicate to you folks what I want to say.
In response to Amer, Ahbab and an angry Zubaer, here is my earlier piece written in January where I tried to spell out the harm caused by 1/11.
Now let me make the following observations about comments made by Ahbab, Zubaer and Amer.
1. India’s politics of today does not represent what India went through even 15 years ago. India has strong EC, ACC. Yes. But for how long? Folks, be patient. Give Bangladesh the same time. Let things take it’s natural course.
2. ” Bangladesh’s politician’s corruption is by no means comparable to India”… I see this assertion being made repeatedly. Any index please? Any data? And why you are blaming all the corruption to the politicians only?
Who didn’t do corruption in BD?
And on a different note, Have you met any Indian political observer or a simple citizen who does not believe, like us, that “All the politicians are looters” ? Why they would think so and yet India has such a strong democracy?
3. I heard why and how BJP got kicked out. But I never heard how BJP came to power, on what situation, using what turmoil etc. Probably you folks were too young then. BJP grew using many mandates, one was exactly as JIB, “Rule of Honest people”.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
“Bangladesh’s politician’s corruption is by no means comparable to India”… I see this assertion being made repeatedly. Any index please?
TI Index 2006
Bangladesh: 156
India: 70
Pakistan: 142
June 26th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Rumi bhai, I wasn’t angry at all - here’s a smiley to prove that
Going back to point 2, here’s some data from TI’s index. India is ranked 70th out of 163 (well within the top half), while Bangladesh is 156th out of 163.
Also, would you be able to name an Indian equivalent of Tarek Rahman, a figure at the very centre of national politics who had a corrupting influence on everything that he touched?
June 26th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
I am a bit slow and (kinda dumb) reader. Could you folks please specify, the specific page of the index report, where it compares India’s politicians to Bangladesh politicians? Also I would love to see the page how it adjusts the index for the age and maturity of the democracy?
And about Tareq Rahman. Well, you may not been born during Sanjay Gandhi’s time. And probably you were young when all of India, K to K, was rocked with this relentless slogan, ” Goli Goli me shor hay, Rajib Gandhi Chor Hay”. It was not any political party’s slogan. It was such an overwhelming anger agtainst corruption that, even the street children used to sing this slogan using popular Bollywood tune.
And yet, India came all the way, withOUT the paternalistic supervision of the lesser Gods, the Army, to what it is now.
Be patient. Help out, not procrastinate. Try to preach honesty, not complain against it. You do not need the army to save you. You can save yourselves.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
I think the goalposts are being shifted in this discussion somehwat, don’t you? First we’re asked for an index comparing India’s corruption to Bangladesh’s and when an independent link is posted, then we are asked to find an index that weights the index for politcian by politician comparison. And adhjusted for age and maturity of the democracy.
Well, as for age and maturity, it would seem that you are suggesting age is inversely proportional to corruptiom That means, as the democracy ages/grows the corruption index would decrease. Well, the question is - did that happen over a 15 year period in Bangladesh. Was there a straight line going downwards indicating a decrease in corruption? I think you’ll find that, in fact, the corrutpion index has increased in the last 15 years. That is to say, the index is proportional to the age.
As for Rajiv and Sanjay’s exploits - you’re right. This is why we are asking for an end to dysnasticism. But even so, I’d like to repeat Zubaer’s question and ask if there is an Indian equivalent who has stolen the anything close to Tareq’s takings. Last I heard, the amount was in the billions.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Sid
The goal post, if changed, was done by you folks, not me.
Here is what I said in my previous comments,
Bangladesh’s politician’s corruption is by no means comparable to India”… I see this assertion being made repeatedly. Any index please? Any data? And why you are blaming all the corruption to the politicians only?
Who didn’t do corruption in BD?
Notice the notion, “politician’s corruption”.
About your inverse ratio point, let me ask you, have you included the inflation adjustment since 1971?
OK, about Tareq, etc. As always, I see a lot of assumptions and hearsay. I believe he indulged in practices that is corruption. But to engage in debate on the comparative magnitude of the corruption, I’ll wait till the numbers are out. i.e. How much money has been stashed in what account. Then I’ll include the inflation from Sanjay’s time to Tareq’s time before responding to your comments about what you HEAR about Tareq.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Oh dear, whilst we sit here and regurgitate everything that has already been said, apologise for politcian’s corruption, revise their figures, adjust them for inflation, polish the dust of their statues in deference the Islamists are taking over the country which has the 6th worst corruption in the world.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Asif S. Re #38
Good example of Indian reforms - and interesting to see that it only happened there since 1990’s and not earlier.
The KEY to that reform in India to clean-up candidates and electoral system was THE LAW. It was the law, an independant Judiciary, that was capable of reforming Indian Electorals. Had the Law not intervened, the politicians would have NEVER volunteered to submit their qualifications and criminal records.
The Only way to get “key institutional reforms” done in BD is to make the Judiciary totally independant - and BEFORE THE ELECTIONS.
If elections happen, under current conditions, our politicians will not ACCEPT the reforms done by the army - they will call these reforms “unconstitutional” or some other excuse to continue their corruption. Thats when an independant Judiciary and ACC will be required to kick-in and keep politicians in their place, and keep them under checks and balance.
Your last comment “The change has to be done politically and by the political parties once the election happens” - that comment has already been proven wrong by our politicians over 35 years. We cannot rely on them alone, to do anything that will control their corruption - thats just human nature - not just the fault of politics.
Again, “the only alternative” is neither politics, nor elections. We already had these proven as failures. However, the ONLY real alternative to cut corruption is effective Law, before elections or politics, and that’s what the army/CTG has promised, to set up “key institutional reforms” in the Rule of Law - by making independant Judiciary and Anti-corruption Commission ACC.
Western nations have established it, India has proven it, but Bangladesh has never really had it - that:
The Only alternative, to control politicians, is the RULE OF LAW.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
K bhai,
Agreed. Rule of law is the number 1 priority. However, at the same time just the law itself is not enough. You need the single mindedness to implement the law. Hope is that after the election, the strong institutes will force the politicians to abide by the law and it will have the much needed control in the system that was not there. So as soon as the institutional reform on ACC, EC is completed, we need to put the system to test. The system needs to be strong enough to fight corruption and it needs to be strong enough to NOT need the backing of army. Otherwise, we will be creating a new set of feudal lords in the army.
June 26th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Sid #46
Wasn’t there an invisible agreement to avoid procrastination and complaints from this discussion?
I am always ready to change my stand and waiting for some good statistics and logic befor I do so.
June 26th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Asif S,
Thats what “EFFECTIVE Rule of Law” (ROL) means - that it will be strong enough to ensure nobody is above the law, that rules are followed and the defaulters are disciplined.
I believe the effectivity of the ROL must be tested BEFORE elections. My faith in our politicians is so much lower than on our army, that I believe the TEST on the effectivity of ROL is bound to fail, AFTER elections. The politicians themselves will ensure the failure of the ROL, to protect their corruption, so ROL must be tested and comissioned BEFORE elections.
To ensure effectivity of ROL, the branches of Law, executive, and law-enforcement must be made inter-checking, so that one branch can check the activity of the other, for checks & balance, to remove army dependancy.
My faith on the army is equally high on the issue of handover of power also, to the politicians, after the ROL has been made effective.
But shouldnt we have a new set of politicians, (as in India example), having known that the current ones are tainted with criminal records?
June 26th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Wow what a boogeman approach. I didn’t know BD was this good at imitating US.
Maneeza Hossain> Power Vaccum> Stop the Army because JAMAAT MIGHT TAKE OVER.
WSJ> Ineffective rule and non democratic government >Stop the CTG because JAMAAT MIGHT TAKE OVER.
Hasina> Lets have a deal with Islamist or else JAMAAT MIGHT TAKE OVER.
Khaleda> Lets build the Bangla Bhai and have contact with Daoud or else JAMAAT MIGHT TAKE OVER.
Fellow Dhristipats> Lets fuck our morality, let the corrupt run free, lets worship the dynastic rule, lets accept cronyism, nepotism and corruption or else JAMAAT MIGHT TAKE OVER.
Good God, what happened to justice honesty, and effective government. If you are so scared of the boogeyman, then JAMAAT WILL TAKE OVER.
Clean up the system first, then worry about Islamist. BD is more secular than other muslim countries. Given the proper corrupt free institution, BD people will choose secular government unlike the Arabs. But if you fail to provide such institution, then people will have no choice but to turn to fundos. And if BD choose fundos, BD will deserve what it gets afterward (Look Pakistan). That is divine justice for BD people.
Incidentally, this has happened before in history in BD.
Mujib>Secular+Autocratic+ Ineffective goverment> ZIA>Honest+Democratic+Razacars.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Yes, democracy is stronger in India than it is in Bangladesh. However, in Bangladesh, peasants do not commit suicide in thousands due to poverty as in India. Income disparity is also higher in India than in Bangladesh, as per the latest UN Gini index. Then, how Indian democracy is better than the de facto military rule in Bangladesh?
I would like to remind one more thing here. 1/11 was not the creation of the failure of the politicians only, collapse of the value system of the civil society, as a whole, is equally, if not more, responsible for the inevitable 1/11.
June 27th, 2007 at 12:17 am
“Or else Jamaat will take over” refrain is not merely fear mongering by secularists. There is a history that goes with it.
Those who remember Jamat in action in 1971 have legitimate fears of a fascist force purporting to uphold Islam, who will show their true face once voted to power.
Would you take a chance with a party whose leadership is associated with Al-Badar and is documented to have carried out atrocities against its opponents ?
June 27th, 2007 at 5:22 am
The idea that politicians are not the only ones to blame, but the people at large are equally to blame for doing corruption, is a MAJOR misconception. Yes the people looted the nation too - like looters in the aftermath of a disaster, but the disaster itself was created by the politicians. So they are the ONLY ones to blame
The govt’s job and responsibility was to control all loopholes and practice that promote corruption. And the govt was run entirely by politicians, who not only abused their powers and responsibilities, but themselves looted in a grand scale.
Ahbab #52 - “collapse of the value system of the civil society” was itself a result of the failure of politicians to clean-up those loopholes.
Instead, politicians reduced the opportunities and resources for social values and development by abusing the national revenue for their personal bank accounts.
The people were only participants in the corruption - whereas the politicians intentionally left the GATE open to corruption, while holding the KEYS to keep them locked.
So they were the ONLY ONES to blame.
June 27th, 2007 at 5:36 am
Hi Saleh,
I am not saying Jamat is not dangerous, but just blatant boogeyman approach is not appropriate.
Don’t forget both AL & BNP has alliance with the islamic fundamentalist(by that, I mean the real ugly ones). So democracy in its current form is not good enough protection against fundamentalism. Lot of people including the west try to ignore that fact.
Why does Maneeza Hossain favor political parties, when they clearly had aligned themselves with the Islamist, while disliking the CTG when the Army has not yet shown any indication of favoring the Islamist.
Maneeza Hossain paper is a subtle propaganda against the military when there is no correlation between the Army and the Islamist. On the contrary, there is direct link to democracy and Islamization in the history of BD.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:26 am
KGazi, a major responsibility of any civil society is to work as a watchdog against the political establishment. The civil society of Bangladesh not only totally failed in this respect, they also actively participated in the looting. Therefore, the civil society cannot be absolved of the guilt of its role in the perpetuation of the kleptocracy.
June 27th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
I agree with Kaiser (#13) that:
1. JI calls for “shot loker shashon chai” is a very adroit manipulation of the popular need for real reform. In that sense, JI is hewing to ICG’s (see citation [1] below) assessment as probably one of the most disciplined political parties in Bangladesh, organized almost along communist party cadre lines.
2. Islamism’s (for want of a better term) rise in Bangladesh has been more due to the singular failure of the politicians, civil society, and the intelligentsia; or, as the FT called them “the most venal elite” in the world.
Ms Hussain’s paper doesn’t have a bibliography, so I don’t know if the author has already read them, but she might have been well-served reading a couple of reports from the International Crisis Group:
[1]. Bangladesh Today, http://www.crisisgroup.org/library/documents/asia/south_asia/121_bangladesh_today.pdf
[2]. Understanding Islamism, http://www.crisisgroup.org/library/documents/middle_east___north_africa/egypt_north_africa/37_understanding_islamism.pdf
Some other observations about the paper:
1. ‘Paternalism’ is not enough of a common denominator to tar the Army with the same brush as the “Islamists”. Just as it is fallacious to tar Hamas, the Islamic Brotherhood (in Egypt), Hezbollah, and Al Qaeda with the same brush and call them Islamists. Paternalism isn’t the sole preserve of the Military or Islam; in case of the latter, she may have forgotten about Islam in Indonesia, Malaysia, and (to some extent) Iran. In a lot of ways, it’s prevalent throughout the elites and the ruling classes and may be more a socio-cultural artifact.
2. I was disappointed by the shallowness of the paper and the oversimplified policy recommendations. One can only hope that this was engendered by Ms Hossain’s need to get through to a readership (US policymakers) not particularly renowned for their intellectual abilities. It seems to press all the right buttons to attract their attention, just as it has attracted the ire of people somewhat closer to the ground.
3. I found her characterization of the Bangladesh Army as a monolithic protector of the flag rather quaint. It also dangerously misses the mark about realities on the ground.
4. The affinity propounded between the military and Islamism (viz. “authoritarianism”) is patently ridiculous. The same could be said of Roman Catholicism, Nazism, even the US Republican Party.
I hope Ms Hossain doesn’t take it personally (because she probably needs education more at this stage than out-and-out opprobrium) but the paper was a singular disappointment. She writes well, she knows her audience equally well, and she has a good enough platform in the Hudson Institute. However, she should have done a bit more research and should not have pandered so much to her audience. We could all have been better served if she had tried to talk about the shades of grey so often papered over in policy and position papers, especially in the US.
–
June 27th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
“Anecdotal evidence and accounts from within the army point to the emergence of Islam, even Islamism, at the expense of Bangladeshi liberation-style heroism, within the rank-and-file of the army. It has often been reported”: ………..Is that an opinion or a research finding!
“ …that younger officers tend to be more religious, and that some have even shown explicit support for Islamist ideas.” : What is the source of this finding.
“While the ……. Virtually surrounded by India, a neighbor whom it regards as the regional superpower, Bangladesh has struggled to check Indian hegemony and to insure a degree of genuinely indigenous decision-making.” While we must recognize India’s contribution for our liberation and respect that, we must not forget that in international relations nothing is permanent. Neither friends nor foes!
“In the military realm, there emerged a portrayal of “the Indian” as the “other,” or the external threat.” ………I am not sure what is meant! It seem to insinuate that portraying the Indians as the other is something negative, which has been done by design. In fact, portraying Indians and other neighbor, Myanmar as the potential adversary will be the only norm / option and military acumen. Every countries military will theoretically consider the neighbors as a potential adversary / source of conflict. Bangladesh is no exception. Not only that Indians also have these “other image” of not only Bangladesh but all neighbors and many more. Many more, because it has regional and global ambition, and rightly so. Analogy: For US, whole world is a potential area of influence. India / China are the upcoming power of tomorrow, hence interest is focused beyond the neighbors.
“For example, training targets for Bangladeshi soldiers were presented as turbaned human figures that unmistakably resembled Indian special forces.” ….Source please! Not that having such target will be wrong in any sense, if one is to follow the wisdom of Tsun Tzu or that of Chanayakka, the great Indian thinker, proponent of the military strategy: Consider your neighbor as enemy and remember, your neighbor’s neighbor is always your friend (Paraphrased by me). My point is the insinuation is negative, which is incorrect. Not only that, I seriously doubt the veracity of the information. Having said that, all the militaries are introduced with their potential adversaries during training. If we really do, our military is doing something that they ought to do. That all militaries ought to do!
While we never espouse war, preparing for the same is military norm during peace. In preparing for imaginary adversary every country considers its neighbor as a source of potential conflict, while diplomatically and internationally we should always try to maintain good meaningful relationship, hence our foreign relationship theme, “Friendship to all, malice to none”
Now some other things:
1. “Odhikar also reported that 96 persons “were killed” or died while in custody” – This is not new or is it! Not going into debate of right or wrong, BNP started this process. Hence it is continuation of political decision taken earlier. If so, CTG does not score poor than previous pol govt, BNP. Or does it!
2. “Much of the corruption by officials of Bangladesh National Party and the Awami League fell with in the first category, personal enrichment, while a sizeable fraction of the corruption the Islamists engaged in was of the second category, community benefit.” – the writer asserted. Assuming that to be correct, if CTG is to start somewhere, where should its focus be to start with! The first or the later!
3. The paper concluded: “it is important to recognize that the current situation is likely to push Bangladesh towards more radicalization. Only a restoration of the democratic process can reverse this tendency…..” Lets analyze.
No disagreement about return to true democracy. And I think, things are moving in better direction, if CTG keeps it promise. But lets look back to politics as it were before:
1. Did AL patronize Islamist! Of course they did. Rewind back to 1996. Did we not see the picture of SH and G. Azam smiling together sharing the same stage! And the Khelafat deal…
2. BNP – It had JI in government. Bangla Bhai – we all know. It exceeded the limit, I am afraid.
Now Ms. Hussein concludes: current situation (which does not have any strong connection like the example above) will push country to radicalization while resorting to so called democracy as before (which set the example above) will reverse it. I am confused with her correlation argument and totally disagree.
4. It asserted: “The involvement of the military in political and economic dossiers, from anti-corruption to legal reform, must be reversed.” While I have no doubt, politics is not militaries cup of tea, I strongly disagree that they should be isolated from anti-corruption fight. This country was No 1 in corruption for 5 Years consecutive. Coming to 2006, we are @ 7, I guess. The Ex-PM / Opposition Leader SH herself admitted that it would not have been possible to go after this big thieves like TZ, Falu, and hundreds of big names. Military is nothing but a tool for government just like Police, BDR. Government has the ultimate power to decide where to use whom. I am definite one won’t disagree the improvement of port due to military involvement. Are we saying that fighting corruption would have been possible by politicians who took bribe to release murderer (Babor) or by Police (which was sadly politicized, which CTG is now trying to rid of politicization), by Judiciary which was loaded with politically biased people during last regime as well as before!
4. She wrote: “By dismantling the democratic process, with the promise of rebuilding it “better” in the future, the New Order is merely legitimizing the Islamist agenda.” I am as well confused given the example above.
Restoring to Democracy: I am positive you don’t want to go back to 1/11, 10/28 as it asserted: “The military having saved the nation…..”. Visibly CTG has promised election by 2008. The question is do we want to give that time to CTG! If we don’t want 1/11, 1/22, 10/28, then we must have reformed democracy. For reform, we need to give time.
The writer asserted. Reform is better if it comes from within. No doubt. But what if that reform never comes from within! Or did it come from within! If so, how is it possible that politicians treat country as their serfdom!
My conclusion about the paper: It portrays not reality but what the writer wants to believe and preach for whatever reason. I honestly believe Bangladesh is a secular and peace-loving country. While Islamo-phobia will attract western attention, it will not portray the country as it really is. To conclude, the paper does more harm to the country than good.
Like Shahed Aziz, I agree: “She should have done a bit more research”
I wish her well in her subsequent venture.
Thanks
LTT
June 27th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Ahbab #56 - “responsibility of any civil society is to work as a watchdog against the political establishment”
—-
Watchdogs were not welcome in the society as politicians labelled them anti-national.
Watchdogs were actively discouraged too by politicians by threatening them with violence, mastans etc. TIB Transparency Intl BD was threatened, humiliated by ministers and often asked to support their corruption reports. Previous ACC was virtualy shut down, newspapers were paid-off to stay quiet and “anti-corruption” reports were labelled as subversive !!
Comments by Dr Yunus and others against politicians’ corruption resulted in targetting of such speakers.
Politicians actively prevented private watchdogs and ombudsman, and that makes politicians even more to blame for the current corruption status.
June 28th, 2007 at 4:15 am
Islam per se is hardly the issue of the 1/11 configuration. To have detracted and digressed from the main focus of the change, orchestrated or otherwise, and to have wilfully and deliberately stoked and buttressed the cause of Huntington’s Clash of Civilizations portrays the propensity of the author to adumberate a mindset-postulate that is inherently and intrinsically anti-Islamist.
An a priori approach to conjure the apparition of the Neo-Christian on “Islam on the Hustings” (a 60s Crusade that saw Lebanon in tatters, and the Middle East War crippling the Arab World, simultaneously engedering the predicatble rise of Israel and Zionism), Moniza Hussain perhaps has the jaundiced-eye view of the single-eyed Jack.
Jingoism in USA, for that matter, and “Jihadissm” in some Muslim States, if any and so, are the result of the Cause-and-effect syndrome. The intensity and force of one is directly proportional to the other. Any honest researcher would perhaps have unearthed who had committed the ‘Original Sin’.
Bangladesh has acquired geo-political significance with the rise of ‘Yellow Peril Polka’- China, what with its strategic location in the Bay of Bengal and its oil and gas natural resources. It would be naive to theorize that 1/11 is a simplistic one-way change alone for Bangladesh. The Dogs of War are already baying for blood. Remember Shakespeare - “Cry havoc, and let slip in the dogs of war”?
An American-Indian joint stance is already positing a ring of defense in South Asia to hedge in China. Bangladesh is albeit required to play second fiddle to this US-India defense strategy to hold China at bay. The corridor of military mobilization that a Deep Sea Port off Maheshkhali, or the Chitagong Port, offers with a on-the-cards Trans-Asian Highway that links the gateway of the Port(s) with the North-West frontiers of India along the border of China can not be ruled out of speculation as a transit route for the Dogs of War.
Moniza Hussain may be vying for a fait accompli US military presence in Bangladesh in articulations couched in a vocabulary that hides the real intent and purpose. Deceipt may mislead the unwitting, but not the Devil himself. The fate of Bangladesh is perhaps sealed in its significance to service the grand designs of the global and regional superpowers, not so much in its innocuous and insignificant liberal Islamic tradition with negligible and minor irritations of incinsequential religious aberrations of a few.
Nizam M. Selim
Chittagong
Bangladesh
June 28th, 2007 at 4:46 am
KGazi, where did you find Dr. Yunus voicing against the politicians’ corruption in the pre-1/11 times? Do politicians anywhere encourage the civil society to act as a watchdog??
The inexcusable silence, and indulgence in corruption to a great extent, of the civil society leaders, rather, expedited ‘1/11’.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:11 am
Ahbab, - Dr. Yunus gave a speech a year ago titled “if I was the minister of anti-corruption”, I had it saved, cannot find it now.
Yes, politicians worldwide, where anti-corruption is a major agenda, politicians themselves upholding public watchdogs, eg Hong Kong, China, many others.
The biggest success of 1/11 is the popularization of “anti-corruption” as a household talk. Previously, people either dismissed it, or surrendered to it, or kept it hush-hush. Many didnt even believe that corruption was unusually high in BD. Most passed it as just part of life, or happens everywhere!!
That was a convenient environment for politicians, people just ignored corruption pre 1/11, including anyone who tried to curb it.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:17 am
Nizam M. Selim,
I can overlook your exaggerated claims about US motives, but I simply cannot let this awful abuse of Shakespeare go by without comment!:) The correct quote is: Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war! Nothing about anyone slipping IN, especially from the outside. The dogs of war are Roman soldiers fighting each other (ie. civil war), not foreigners coming in.
And please don’t make this personal: this is a scholarly piece. The author is not trying to get a foreign army into Bangladesh or any other fait accompli. You’re using the same logic that governments use to counter TIB reports: they are reporting on our corruption, therefore they must be against us. Having said that, I repeat, her analysis is restricted by the limits of Western educations and organizations when it comes to dealing with Islamists.
KGazi, thank you for pointing out the obvious fact about civil society and politicians. How powerful do we think civil society is anyway? I remember last summer SQ Chowdhury giving an interview in which he defined Harry Thomas’ mysterious “third force” as “civil society” and not the military. Though I’d never given an ear to SaQa, I was left shaking my head.
The Daily Star archive has the link for Yunus’ speech, but is down at the moment. Also of note is TIB’s reports against corruption in the country, for which Prof. Muzaffer got a load of flak and TIB was very publicly taken to task by Mannan Bhuiyan (yes the very same reformer) on television channels in the rudest manner possible.
June 28th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Yes, Dr. Yunus made a speech on corruption. However, does this type of speech make any difference when at the same time, for example, you fleece the toiling masses by charging many a times more than what should be the rate for mobile calls?
This sort of low moral standard is actually quite common for the civil society leaders in Bangladesh. Still, how can some of you defend the civil society so blatantly?
June 28th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Nizam M Selim
I think it would be highly unwise to dimsiss the Islamist threat in Bangladesh simply because Maneeza Hossain, a single academic, has produced a less than compelling article on the subject. I’ve read her earlier material on the Islamism in Bangladesh and her work has been extremely perceptive and thoroughly researched. We have discussed her previous work on DP here and here.
For some reason, she has fallen into the trap of attempting to ring together the CTG and the Islamist threat into one large super issue which is as silly as it is unbelievable. We have to ask if she has any other motives for wanting to blame the CTG for going after corruption instead of the Islamists. The fact that her father happens to be Anwar Hossain Manju, recently guilty of alcohol possession and accused of a record of corruption as long as my arm, might have something to do with it. But I could be wrong.
If any country has painful, firsthand experience of “Islamism” as a dangerous, nihilistic and imperialist politicisation of religion, it is Bangladesh. We don’t really need to be told how evil this ideology can be, do we?
The problem is Bangladesh is a poor country so it would be difficult and unwise to curtail money pouring into the country from the deep pockets of Saudi Salafi’s who want to expand Wahhabism with the petrodollar. A lot of this money comes in the pretext of zakat as well Islamic dawa and charity concerns. This is why the Jamaat Islami runs like an efficient NGO rather than a bloated, over-extended patronage-based political party. I find it curious that Maneeza chose to completely ignore this fact. For some reason Saudi funding seems to not appear on her academic radar. Could this be because Saudis also happen to be America’s bosom buddies in the Middle East after Israel?
A few perceptive commenatators on this thread as well as Amer the writer of the original post, has commented on the fact that Muslim politicisation and “Islamism” in Bangladesh is not one monolithic all-boys club. Tablighis remain quietists and apolitical, Jamaati Islami is a highly organised political player with a top echelon of war criminals who badly want to launder their legacy as Rajakars and gain national acceptance, and then there are the low-level boot boys of the Harkatul Jihad, Juma’atul Muhahedin who are clearly Jihadists who have direct link with Pakistan-based AlQaedists. This last group of mercenaries who have ingested the sclerotic perversion of imperialist Islam, ofteh espoused in one word: “Khilafa”. Which one of these are the most dangerous is difficult to say since they themselves do not bother to offer any differentiation for their ideologies and would rather protect each other than cooperate with authorities because, of course, for them the state is always “Kuffar”.
June 28th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
islamism improves. blocking the means of its improvement is what a lot of the people here seem to be up for, which is probably beneficial for some in the short term.
if only people would see past their own noses.
its sad that some people took the British Empire, substituted the British for Islamic and then commited abusement(to use a SHW coined term) of the concepts behind past forms of government in a different time in a different place.
there is nothing scholarly about the think tank piece. see any references? look at the funding? look at the depth of historical placement?
TIB was not saying anything novel and it is an international franchise for some strange perception model. yes the govt was stubborn, but i think that has something to do with pride, the level of international disclosure and the interests people involved in manufacturing it.
June 28th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Re: 64.
“..you fleece the toiling masses by charging many a times more than what should be the rate for mobile calls? ”
I believe you are misinformed. Grameen phone is controlled by Telenor of Norway and its day to day policies are determined by people like Erik Aas, who is the chief executive. Go to http://www.grameenphone.com/index.php?id=65
Dr. Yunus involvement with this company is through Grameen bank, which owns 35 percent share, but he cannot control their policies.
There is a different nonprofit organization Grameen telecom (where Dr. Yunus is involved), which buys calling minutes from the for-profit Grameen phone and lends it out to village phone ladies. Perhaps, that is the reason for your confusion.
On a different note, a for-profit organization will naturally charge what it can to maximize its profits. So, I am not surprised Grameen phone does what it does; it’s what is to be expected from a profit venture. Only competition with other companies will bring down the charges.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Ahbab # “This sort of low moral standard is actually quite common for the civil society leaders in Bangladesh. Still, how can some of you defend the civil society so blatantly?”
——-
It was never the responsibility or authority of civil society to create legal conditions for anti-corruption. That job was assigned very clearly and monopolistically to the politicians, who had the police, judges, parliament, laws and authority ALL in their hands.
Moral standards of corruption in civil society can only be upheld by one method and one method alone, and that is by laws, regulations and policies.
Can we blame the civil society for not implementing those laws?
Blaming Dr. Yunus for Mobile prices, changes the subject too. Yunus “fleecing the toiling masses” is a different issue from civil society trying to prevent politicians corruption, the Yunus comment is debatable anyway.
Contradicting arguments - if ALL of civil society was corrupt (like Yunus?!), and if Yunus’ anti-corruption speech didnt matter, then can you blame him for NOT having political watchdogs?
Because they hoarded absolute power and authority, politicians were virtually untouchable by the civil society, and knowing that precursor, politicians totally capitalized on it, bagging their own fortunes. Pre 1/11 politicians deserve no excuse. They must be held responsible, that despite having all the authority, responsibility, mandate, legacy, and trust of the people to create the environment for free and fair nation, through admin, policies and laws - they proceeded grossly to abuse it instead, for their own gains.
Our pre 1/11 folks did represent our country at home and abroad, but do they deserve to be defended for their selfish failures?. And even after all that has been exposed, even after the catastrophic decline in governance, it will be astounding if the pre-1/11 politicians are STILL exonerated for all their selfish greed.
My last comment on this issue before drifting too much off-topic.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Saleh Tanveer, yes, Telenor, being the majority shareholder of Grameen Phone, has greater authority on fixing the call charges than other shareholders. Still, how can Dr. Yunus and his Grameen can defend not collaborating with Telenor in charging the absurd rates? Profit maximization is one thing, ripping off the people is another one. I would like to remind you of the comment, of Syed Margub Morshed, ex-Chairman of BTRC, which compared the mobile operators of Bangladesh with the East India Company during the British Raj.
KGazi, if you still continue to believe that the civil society has no role in checking corruption, I have nothing to say anymore.
June 29th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Ahbab Aziz (25): how could you say that the Islamic militants do not belong to the poor?
Apologies for not replying earlier - I have been away. I say this because I actually follow statements and analysis by Islamic militant leaders and thinkers. Violent radical Islam has many causes. Simple ‘poverty => corrpuption => jihad’ is not one of them.
Firstly, the leadership is not drawn from the poor. Abdur Rahman and Bangla Bhai were not poor people. They may not be rich - lower middle class according to you - but their standard of living was very much higher than poverty line. And while unemployment or destitution can send individuals to become the foot soldier, most studies of suicide bombers around the world suggest that they are on average more educated or from less poor parts of the society.
Secondly, ‘poor people with their backs against the wall taking up arms’ is a nice romantic notion, but economic history suggests that this is largely wrong. Poor people, with their backs against the world, don’t take up arms, they migrate. Spartacus didn’t want to fight Romans, he wanted to leave Italy with his army of slaves. Even today, poor people live their villages and flock to cities.
Thirdly, to the extent that there is a direct economic cause of violent radical Islam, it is globalisation, not poverty or corruption per se. Globalisation benefits different people differently. It widens income and wealth inequality. It destroys ‘traditional culture’. It upsets old social norms. These upset a lot of people, even if their own material standard of living improves. This is important to understand.
June 29th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Anthony, if poverty is not a reason of terrorism, why all the spots of major armed movements of the world are in the poor countries? Is there any rich country in the world which is witnessing a serious armed struggle?? Does globalization affect only the poor countries??? If poverty does not instigate terrorism, how does globalization do the same????
June 29th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Anthony, if poverty is not a reason of terrorism, why all the spots of major armed movements of the world are in the poor countries?
Really? Is that the rule? How do you explain (away) the fact that all 19 of the 911 terrorists were Saudi? There has been, even up to the present day, a low-level war being fought within Saudi Arabia between the the authorities and radicalised Salafi Jihadists.
June 29th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Neither poverty nor globalization cause terrorism.
Its caused by certain social factors, which itself is caused by certain group of people in Islamic society.
Why are there bombing in US, UK & Spain? Are they poor?
Why is there no terrorism in China? Don’t they have muslims there? Are the muslims there any less muslim then BD? Isn’t China in a fast track to globaliztion?
The truth is closer to the home. If leader like Tareq Zia patronize criminals like Bangla Bhai. If a country never punish War Criminals, just because they are muslim brothers. There is a moral decay in the society. When the next guy wants to bomb a place, he can justify it lot more easily.
If a society cannot stand up for what is right or wrong, do you expect these criminals to be any better?
June 29th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
If lack of culture, economy and ideas is a symptom of poverty it is a state of civilisational indignity.
Terrorism is an impatient, misguided and criminal means of somehow getting that dignity back by striking at imagined or real sources of external suffocation.
Many Bangladeshis(clearly not all) would like to see an uplifted Muslimkind and see a complex array of forces stacked up against them and players that respect no rules of decency.
When muslims lose that sense of decency, of sacredness and become instrumental and relativist, that is the point at which certain actionplans might be tempting to them.
Ummpathise if you have to.
Poor people migrate.
true, when they get the chance eg. bangladeshi athletes. But some people organise and struggle. Banglabhai wasnt one to skip of to the UAE to build a skyscraper, or jump through high skilled worker hoops to get into north america, or go to saudi and grow large toxic vegatables with sewage water. If someone somewhere had guided him better, perhaps sent him to alazhar instead of afghanistan, he might have been less ‘useable’ by whatever weird force that was behind him.
June 29th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Ahbab Aziz,
“Poor countries” have rich people and “rich countries” have poor people too. Look at people.