Thu 26 Apr 2007

“Perspectives need to be reshaped and redefined. And one way of doing that is through hearing the voices of the young”, says DS in its intro for the roundtable it did to find out what the younger chaps in desh are thinking. But how are you going to “reshape and redefine perspective” when you are perfectly happy to just interact with people who are just like you? Going through the list of participants in the roundtable, the first thing that struck me was how undiversified the group was. This was a group of people who probably bump into each other in social gatherings on a weekly basis. Yes, I am talking about the representation of the wider spectrum of the society in such talks. For a change, it was refreshing to see the young bloods in the round table. But when at the end of the discussion with the youth reps of Bangladesh, the moderator says, “One thing that did not come up today is employment. There is a large number of youth in Bangladesh. How can we employ them? The unemployment problem is pushing people into drugs and crime. This needs to be addressed. “, you just know there is something wrong with the representation in that talk.
People in that talk did not really deal with the issues what millions of youth in Bangladesh deal with. While the participants are all high achievers and well accomplished and a lot of them I admire highly and are my friends, I can’t stress enough how important it is to have people from all strata in these talks. Don’t get me wrong. I thank the DS for taking this initiative. But please don’t try to create another Sushil Samaj junior where there is only a certain group or class of people who are trying to speak for a much greater population they don’t represent. Where is the student leader from Dhaka University? Where is the Madrassa student ? Where is the student activist ? Where is the young politician? Where is the grassroot NGO worker or the young government officer from Borguna? The list goes on.
I stress this repeatedly in my writings that I just find it amazing that our fellow country men are so reluctant on breaking out from their familiar comfort zone. Of course, it is always nice and comfortable to interact with people who are just like you. But let’s try to break out of that comfort zone and really try to hear what the rest of the country is saying. Take the example of this young lad that I met in Fatulla last year.

He went to Madrassah because it was free and that’s the only education that he could afford. (To its credit, this issue is discussed in the meeting). But now after passing his Dakhil exam, he has no job, no skills and nothing to do. While on one hand he sees one group of people flaunting their djuice lifestyle, he is staring at a bleak future. Are we really talking to him or are we just happy branding him as an “Islamic Fundamentalist”? If you are not talking to him, you can be sure that someone else is and you may not like the outcome of that conversation. There are millions like him who are unemployed and are looking for direction and they are the majority. Can you really talk about the aspiration of the youth in Bangladesh without talking to him?
Perhaps I am totally going on a tangent, perhaps DS invited a lot of people and they did not show up but make no mistake this is the larger trend in the Bangladeshi society today. An elite few complacently think they can speak for all and decide the fate of millions. If you don’t know what I mean see the headlines in the newspaper today. Election Commission is going to talk about electoral reform today with 60 preselected “eminent personalities”. In this era when the word politics is widely hated, you can bet its these eminent personalities whose advice will stick and not the political party’s. Too much power to the “ignorant” mass may just be somthing we will not be comfortable with. And some of you, the people who come to this blog and proclaim that you speak for the people, you are guilty of the same sin and perhaps us, the bloggers, too.
That is the single most valid reason why democracy is still the best option by any means because it reflects the will of the larger majority and not an elite few. It is in democracy where a Mahfuz Anam is just as equal as the young madrasah student in the picture above. A lot of us talk about democracy but how many of us actually have internalized it? How many of us actually practice it at home? Or office? Ask yourself if you are really comfortable with an electoral system which does not differentiate between you and your domestic help.
Last six months, as Bangladeshis, have been trying for us. On the positive side, personally speaking, its been a huge learning opportunity for me to truly realise what my political beliefs are. Ironically, it is Mahfuz Anam who sums it up nicely.
I think in the last fifteen years we have found out that the democracy that we have practiced needs to be improved. Governance, parliament all of these need to be improved. When we criticize the parliament, it is not to do away with the parliament. When I am criticizing an MP, I am not criticizing the institution, but the role that the MP has played. Let us not have any doubt about where we stand, we stand for democracy, we stand for what we have achieved, but the regret is that we could have done better.
For the full report, go here. Hope to highlight on some of the other things discussed there in separate entries.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:23 am
Fascinating read Asif! Simply fascinating. Will definitely respond in depth tomorrow or day after!
April 26th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Yeah Asif Bhai well said.
People with religious appearances are widely stereotyped as Rajakars and what not. There are millions of students studying in madrasas (which provides them free education + fooding lodging), we do not provide any hope for them except hatred. We talk about abolishing Madrassas but forget to mention what alternative we have for these people.
And what is the definition of susheel samaj? Only decades ago we had a class called Budhdhijibi which were so pampered by media. Now we hear about susheel samaj now and then. Whom do they represent?
What we lack is the representation of people from all walks of life including the Bangladeshi diaspora. This is a failure of our politics.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Its neat that people are reflecting on this. Gives me hope. Unemployment would be a very great service to the public, if they were to cover it sensibly. As its an english thing that appeals to the young i guess they could do graduate unemployment across a spectrum of the public and private universities.
There are a lot of stupid attitudes amongst students and walls built between those from dhaka and others who come from mufassal backgrounds. DS could help expose and reflect back these attitudes if they wanted to do something unifying.
Even in the few rare expressions of sympathy with the islamic line students we patronise them. A good idea would be to make examples of some high acheivers from that sector, not just cast them as losers.
Religious minded rational people do not survive for long in the DS, this is probably less Mahfuz Anams and more the general staffers who like to purge nonsecular brethrens who dont conform (its a general problem, eg if you are an english lit student at dhaka Uni and you are seen to pray, you are for it).
April 26th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Great post, Asif Bhai. I hope that it will give people cause to stop, think and act on what is being pointed out.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Asif bhai,
I’m glad that you have brought this up. I have two major issues with this roundtable of my own.
Firstly, where are the young? A Bangladeshi citizen can vote on reaching the age of 18 the last I checked. What is the average age of this group? Where are the 18 and 19 year olds?
I mean really, most of the people are in their mid 30s, atleast a couple in their mid 40s. If this is the young generation in this country, we are in serious trouble!
And secondly, I have major issues with the blurb that the DS put up today. “And one way of doing that is through hearing the voices of the young. They have a remarkable ability to think the issues through..”. Is that patronizing or what? Ability to think things through?? What are they 6 year olds? Do you really talk about people most of who have had careers for over 10 years in that language. I’m glad that I wasn’t invited, but had I been, I would have written to ask for an apology for that insinuation. As if the ability to think things through is some great achievement for a group whose average age is over 30!
April 26th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
This is a thought provoking post…why do we do this? None of us are above this. If I into a room full of unknown people I am drown to the person who outwardly anyway, mirrors me. Not the girl in hijab. I applaud DS for taking the initiative. Instead of criticizing or sulking for not being invited, why not initiate other round-tables to prove your point and make a difference at the same time
April 26th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Great post, Asif. I wish I had time to respond right now in greater detail. I agree entirely with your thoughts. The problem with our rhetoric and discourse a lot of the times is how unrepresentative it is of the concerns, needs and interests of most people in Bangladesh. Talk to any smart Dhaka University student from a mufassil town. You understand the depth of frustration with the way things have been. It didn’t always used to be this way.
And Lima, perhaps if you did spend some time talking to “girl in hijab”, you’d realize that you’re not so different after all.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Great post and stimulating discussion.
Does it matter who sits on these roundtables? It’s the Dhaka elite plus one bloke from New York who runs a blog like this - elites are a fact life - even more so in Bangladesh.
Let’s engage with the issues and not the personalties.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:06 am
In my opinion this round table idea is a good start. However, to get the benefit we should have round tables all over the country and collect the findings and suggestions.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:12 am
Hi moderator, the last comment did not get through properly, so I’m pasting the link in this one. Feel free to put it one comment or another. http://dhakashohor.blogspot.com/2007/04/shushil-shomaj-emerging-discontent.html
April 27th, 2007 at 7:29 am
My Namesake Asif Y., You have nailed it. This is so exciting to see such powerful new writers in the blogsphere. I will write to you separately regarding a writing syndicate that I am working on.
Sharmin, it is indeed a start. But as Asif Yusuf mentions in his piece that there is a growing discontent that is growing towards this privileged Sushil Samaj because of the perception that they are out of touch with the reality and are benefeciaries of ruling by selection. If they don’t address this, there is trouble ahead.
ASK reported couple of days ago that workers discontent is brewing all around the country. Kansat, Phulbari, Khalishpur, militancy, these are not isolated incidents — these are signs of spontaneous resistance due to the lack of political leadership. All of this is indicative of serious social turmoil in the coming days. It seems that nobody is listening. Civil Society has a huge role to play here but as Asif Y mentions that the leaders of civil society are not inclusive enough to address this head on. As part of it, we all have a roll to play here.
April 27th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Asif:
Funny you should say that. After the first half hour of the session, I did an intervention where I said all the jawing was beginning to sound like a “young version of CPD (Center for Policy Dialogue)”.
Of course they cut that out of the transcript…
April 27th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Asif,
Great post, raises a number of very important points.
1. Election Commission talking reforms to ‘eminent people’.
There is no harm in talking to ‘eminent people’ if these people are experts in the field of electoral reforms or governance. If you were going to build a bridge over Meghna you’d be talking to eminent engineers, right?
But it is absolutely imperative that these reforms are discussed with the general public as well. Why aren’t the proposed reforms being published in the newspapers? Why aren’t the national dailies publishing editorials and op-eds? Why don’t the election commissioners go out to the mofussils and hold town meetings?
The regime thought that with the current leadership in the two parties intact there is no chance of successful reform. So they tried to exile the netris. And this is the charitable interpretation of the event. But there is another way to go over the party leadership. Talk to the district and upazilla leaders directly. When, not if, democracy returns, it will be the grass root politicians that will make it work. You want to run an election where no one can use Sheikh Mujib or Zia-ur-Rahman’s image, whom better to ask than the guy who has to co-ordinate the campaign in a tight race in Muktagacha? If they can tell you that the reforms will work, if you can convince them that these reforms are in their best interest, then reforms will stick, with or without the Netris.
2. Religious people
This reminds me of an incidence here (Australia) some time ago. Funds were being raised for a charity in Dhaka. At the meeting, a senior organiser said half in jest, ‘Huzoor type-er keu thakle bhalo hoto, manushre bolte partam fitra’r taka ta eikhane dan’. The sad reality is that there was no ‘huzoor type’ in the group, and the ‘huzoor types’ here would rather give money to a madrassah than a non-religious charity.
3. Other round tables
I presume these events cost a fair bit of money. But we could do something much cheaper. We could just talk to the student, slum dweller, factory worker or the government clerk. We could then report their views. It is no substitute for democracy, but it will at least broaden our horizons.
Asif Y,
Also great writing.
April 27th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Naeem, they also cut out of the transcript the section when you got up and did a rousing version of Careless Whisper by George Michael.
Nice to see some old friends taking up positions of eminent junior members of the Shushil Shomaj.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
The list of attendees was put together by Shahedul Anam, who writes for DS.
I think most people invited came. The table was full.
There were some expected faces, but there were many for me that were not.
Also, there was discussion about doing future round tables (some are in works), and class issues were brought up. Also, I was not the only person who talked about the need to include madrassa students in the dialogue– they just kept mine in. So don’t dismiss the attendees entirely as a bunch of “elites” only.
The transcript is very odd. They left out lot of stuff. For example my comment about research on religious/ethnic minorities seems to come out of left field. But it was prefaced by my talking about the main conclusions of the chapter on religious minorities I just wrote for ASK’s 2006 annuam HR report– and that point was piggybacking off something Sara said before me. By cutting all that out, this seems like a series of monologues, but people were actually interacting with each other a fair bit.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Tahir: “It’s the Dhaka elite plus one bloke from New York who runs a blog like this”
Who’s the bloke from NY?
April 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Asif, great analysis by you, particularly one observation you made: “Going through the list of participants in the roundtable, the first thing that struck me was how undiversified the group was.”
What struck me was that there were no non-Muslim sounding names in the list of 19 participants. I certainly do not blame organizers for it because I do not believe them to be prejudiced at all. But these initiatives really need to make a very conscious effort to be more representative of society. In this regard I also applaud Naeem’s efforts in discussing the issue of [dwindling]representation of ethnic and religious minorities in different spheres of life.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Naeem
Asute observation.
Perhaps some are more elite than others. I’ve qualified that statement.
Growinp up in NY means puts that bloke in the Bronx in a different geographical and political space - but my point was to talk politics, not people.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
I was glad to participate. At 36 I do not pretend to be young, but I have been running a successful business in Bangladesh for the last 12 years, and have learned a few things in the process.
I think that faith in “grassroots political leaders” is misplaced. They are mastans. Their function in our political system is (1) to collect chada from businesses in their area, and (2) to intimidate businesses so that only supporters of their own party will be hired. In my opinion, that’s why so many people in rural areas are blindly loyal to awami league or bnp: they hope that unswavering loyalty will eventually be rewarded by a job.
I don’t think that Dr. Yunus’ party is likely to win too many seats. The fact is that people who have “invested” years of support in BNP or AL will not suddenly desert their party. Such voters do not particularly want clean or effective government; they want to be on the winning team so that they can reap some concrete benefit (like a job).
April 27th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
But the point is everyone deep down wants to be on the winning team.
Especially when you’re poor and not on the winning team and want to be part of the club.
Except the rich who don’t need to pick any sides because they are above politics and the coverage of basic services.
Sometimes it’s difficult to be objective about politics and parties until one is living a comfortable life. That’s a very small percentage in Bangladesh.
However the broader point is that the parties need to change and reflect the interests of poor people better - and change agents - whether they sat on this roundable or CPD need to improve the governance of these political parties. It’s not enough to say the poor will support them unconditionally because this leave us in a passive position not wanting to change much about the system.
April 27th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Zahir,
Interesting point you make about the patronage system with which these parties have kept their supporters and grassroots workers loyal. But I feel you place the blame only on the masses, and not on the political elite who are doing this. It’s generally accepted that patronage systems start from the very top and reach down.
So it’s not that such voters do NOT want clean of effective government. It’s that making demands from parties will result in the patronage being cut off. My difference with you is hair-line: it’s not that people support the parties for hopes of jobs (as you seemed to imply), but that if they don’t they will lose/never get jobs. Your formulation seems to put the blame mostly on the people. Mine puts it firmly on the political elite.
April 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
gis a job? I’ll vote for imminent Yunus!
April 27th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
I can’t claim to know dozens of grassroots politicians but I do know a few and some of them, amazingly enough, aren’t mastans. So while Zahin Hasan may be right for the most part (I dont know how much interaction he has had with grassroots politicians), I dont think such generalizations are helpful really. Perhaps the chairmen of the union parishads and their shango pangos are mastans, but that doesnt account for all grassroots politicians by any means. And I agree with AsifY, the patronage system is perpetuated by the political elite.
Also, I think its ridiculous at this point to be talking about Dr. Yunus’ prospects. Doesn’t he need to spell out what his politics is all about first, and set out his agenda? Is he on the far right where some like Menon and Inu want to put him, or is he left of centre where i’d like him to be? Do we know yet? So far, all we have is the man, brilliant as he is. But thats just not enough for me. I thought we were trying to move away from individuals and personality based politics - I love and respect bangabandhu hence i vote for Shamim Osman, Zia was hot therefore i vote for Nasiruddin Pintu kind of thing. If we want a departure from that, I suggest we begin by refraining from discussing Dr. Yunus’ electoral prospects till he tells us where he stand on the issues. What does he think about extra-judicial killings, does he support open pit coal mining, will he bring back my FTV?
April 28th, 2007 at 4:49 am
Shameran,
What is left and right in Bangladesh?
Once upon a time left meant socialism and secularism of some sort, and right meant market economy and the politics of Islam.
Socialism is discredited everywhere. You want to end poverty, market economy is the way to go. But social inequities created by market economy and globalisation still needs redressing. Who feels that role in Bangladesh? In many cases it’s political Islam. Does that make Islam-pasand groups left?
Globalisation in Bangladesh means some degree of economic integration with India. Once upon a time, left was viewed as ’soft on India’. Now it’s the big business houses who stand to benefit most from dallying with India. So does that make anti-globalisation an issue of the right?
I thoroughly agree with you that Yunus, or for that matter Hasina/Khaleda or whoever replace them in AL/BNP, should spell out their politics. We should discuss these too.
April 28th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Jyoti: “Socialism is discredited everywhere”
I think that’s a little too broad a statement. There are interesting experiments in socialist-leaning democracies in both Europe and Latin America.
Thought it’s often a bit too hagiographic, you may want to check out Tariq Ali’s new book:
“Pirates of the Caribbean: Axis of Hope”
April 28th, 2007 at 10:26 am
I guess I am too late to follow the string of discussion here.
If Wolfovich is credited for WB’s reform agenda that already squandered 20% (that is billions) of its own fund and his own personal and historical agenda we should not raise eye brows when few elite or not ‘talking shop’, deliberating on crispy issues in our unstable society. Watch ‘trityomatra’, men with variety of proven sins come out so clean in every show.
How many or who, to me is not a matter, it is their intention. Why the editors indulging in so many social worker type events or works! They should be preaching knowledge, pure information to educate people by writing books on crucial issues or events to reflect their true professionalism. I consider this kind of initiative as to build a consumer (readers) for their news and media and it is pure business, like many corporate houses sponsor many social issues on marketing and image building ground. It has nothing to do with real socio political and economic issues that is putting us down.
Improving life, creating employment that should be heart of any issue in our society today. Those, very comfortably positioned, socially and politically powerful editors, I strongly believe that, like many other professionals they are not totally ethical or dedicated to their profession. How many strong professional group in BD you can rely on?
We should consider the substance not ethnicity of the participants. Asif was write on his arguments but I become so skeptic the way he has concluded.
However the best part of this wonderful discussion, it percolates a diverse nature of our thinking pattern, to me that is the only hope.
April 28th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Did the Maosists in Nepal make new inroads into the discredited government?
April 28th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Mishu & Zafar, who were attendees @ this RT, are organizing a follow-up RT on Education. There will be other follow-up RTs as well.
April 28th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Naeem,
Socialism in the sense of nationalisation of industries and financial sector, import substitution and collectivisation of agriculture is not practised anywhere outside of North Korea. The socialist leaning experiments in Latin America (I’m not sure about Europe) that you speak of is very different from traditional socialism. Bolivia’s nationalisation of its mines notwithstanding, Latin American experiments are about bridging social gaps between the haves and have nots. I call income redistribution social democracy, but if you want to call this socialism then that’s fine - it’s semantics.
My point was that it’s not clear what left and right mean in Bangladesh. Socialism or social democracy in Latin America is at least in part a reaction against the excesses of globalisation. In Bangladesh this cause is probably being taken up by Islam-pasand parties. Is that left or right?
Tariq Ali is a great polemicist and debater. But he’s overselling Chavez (and Bolivia’s nationalisations will almost certainly end in tears). Hopeful cases in that part of the world are Brazil and Chile.
April 28th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Almost everyone recognizes today that old-school socialism - nationalized industry - is a recipe for economic stagnation. Profitable companies expand and create more employment; state-owned companies are never profitable, and never create more emloyment.
A “left” platform today is one which endorses a realistic redistributive policy (ie. a redistributive policy other than nationalization). In my opinion the single most realistic “left” policy option open to Bangladesh is the introduction of a tax on corporate sales revenue. Taxing capitalist activity to raise money for public services constitutes redistribution.
Most companies in Bangladesh evade taxes on profits by fudging their accounts to show very little profit. Taxes on corporate profits should be replaced with taxes on corporate sales revenues. Taxes on sales revenue would be harder to evade as each company’s sales revenues are transparently recorded on their bank statements. I have a longer piece about this on my own blog.
To clarify what I wrote earlier:
Over the last 12 years, managers working for me have hired thousands of workers. Most of the people they hired were recommended by local union porishod members (who obviously recommend only their supporters). From the manager’s point of view, hiring “recommended” people is the best way of reducing the local leaders’ mastani and demands for chada.
If you are an unemployed person in rural Bangladesh, you are not likely to get a job unless you are a loyal AL or BNP supporter and can get a recommendation from your local leader. This is what Dr. Yunus is up against. Though I intend to vote for him, I don’t think he is likely to win more than a few seats.
April 28th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
#24
Its funny how right and left apparently change with times. Both right and left were anti india, specifically brahminism, at one time. Thats because their are other factors, other than this very white left right thing operating in this world
The rise of Chavez and Morales have a lot to to with indigenous peoples/Bumiputra/nonwhite assertiveness.
Anyway, we would be wise to supercede this dialectic oppositional political axis and prioritise more rationally.
April 28th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Jyoti
Maybe you’re right - whose to say anyone knows what socialism means these days, any more than democracy - in any case a system dreamed up in Europe a long time, ago, which seems to be still working, but is nevertheless a modern phenomenon - 500 yrs max.
In the case of SA - aaybe these experiments will end in tears - it won’t be the first time south american history ends in tears - no doubt begun with te Trail of Tears - but the resistance has always about indigenous rights then - and now resisting Americanisation. They now see this as the same thing. Resising dollarisation. But you’re probably right - it ain’t socialism.
But what a great title - Pirates of Caribbean and Axis of Hope. Love it.
April 28th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Jyoti’s insight into the obsolescence of left-right is spot on, not just in Bangladesh but everywhere in the world. Think Sweden. High taxes, excellent social services and a thriving market economy to boot (45% MPs - female at one point - unrelated but interesting). Are they left or right? What about New Labour in Britain?
It’s even worse when you put in foreign policy as measures for right-left. Are leftists more “dove-ish” and rightists more “hawkish” when it comes to foreign policy? Do they necessarily have different foreign policies? Even the Soviets had to concede that their foreign policy was based on realpolitiks than ideology. So yes, left and right are context-specific.
And frankly, in BD, there are no left and right because frankly, neither of them have many USEFUL policies for distinguishing. “Who declared our independence?” is not a standard for judging what side of the political spectrum you inhabit.
April 28th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Jyoti wrote: “Socialism in the sense of nationalisation of industries and financial sector, import substitution and collectivisation of agriculture is not practised anywhere outside of North Korea.”
NM: I wasn’t referring to socialism in that sense.
Jyoti: “The socialist leaning experiments in Latin America (I’m not sure about Europe) that you speak of is very different from traditional socialism…I call income redistribution social democracy, but if you want to call this socialism then that’s fine - it’s semantics.”
NM: I wrote “”There are interesting EXPERIMENTS in socialist-LEANING democracies”
(emphasis added)
Jyoti: “Tariq Ali is a great polemicist and debater. But he’s overselling Chavez..”
NM: That’s why I wrote “it’s often a bit too hagiographic”
April 28th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
The only forms of socialism that is not on the wane is the Latin American model of the huge brash larger than figuerheads and demagogues of Castro, Chavez and Morales type. Which is probably why Tariq Ali’s book is of the “we’re not worthy” hagiography. I’m of the thinking that we’ve had more than our fare share of that type of cult of personality.
The country needs more mundane market-driven nation building rather than demogogic, gesture-politics of the Chavez school.
There is no sign of socialism and the “left” in BD politics any longer but Awami League’s problem was that it was completely unable to shift right-wards to occupy the centre-right market driven ethos of the BNP.
The BNP’s failure was to go too far right towards appeasing the Islamist/Fundies and even bending so far backwards as to be indistinguishable from ultra-far right politics of Jamaat.
April 29th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Just a bit of clarification: AsifY and Asif in this blog are different person. Asif - Asif Saleh and AsifY is Asif Yusuf who has his own blog as well at http://dhakashohor.blogspot.com
April 29th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Asif: Nice post and I agree largely to the points you are trying to make here. That said I must note one thing as soon as you start questioning on the grounds of “the representation of the wider spectrum of the society.” Valid point, very much. But if these very people, based in Dhaka, have sinned by “trying to speak for a much greater population they don’t represent” what’s the point of running this blog itself? Will you please list the profiles of bloggers at UV, esp. any madrassahwalah? If not you can try listing bloggers based in Bangladesh.
I don’t see why DS can not aim at becoming the platform of “junior shushil samaj” here. It is indeed a newspaper backed by this very class and these are the people who are set to be its patrons in the not so distant future, that’s the marketing aspect.
If NRBs in UK, US can have their blogs discussing Bangladesh minute by minute… entrepreneurs, writes, advocates in Bangladesh are perfectly OK if they try doing the same. If they are not “representative” enough how much are you?
April 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Very much Valid point Tasneem.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
You don’t have to be representative of the group you represent, true, but we might want to question whether they are adequately representing the views of the poor.
None of us are representative enough, true, including this blog - but people shouldn’t get so bothered when issue of reprensetative claims crops up. If we mind then it seems we don’t have the stomach for debate - which is er.. the sort of thing human rights activists claim to be…
I thought it’s been a great discussion. Scrutinising who we speak for, who we might speak for in the distant future - is altogether a good thing , but neither should it disqualify anyone from giving views.
Not sure everyone in this blog will go for junior shushil samaj….. it might make more independent minded advocates run a mile - the shushil samaj presented in the rountable seem to me part of the establishment - albeit the more progressive parts of the establishment.
Often challenges to society froms from many directions - including challenging shushil samaj itself.
April 29th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Very good point Tasneem. I am not trying to play holier than thou here and I myself am as much guilty of the same thing that I have pointed out and I note that in the post as well when I say
And some of you, the people who come to this blog and proclaim that you speak for the people, you are guilty of the same sin and perhaps us, the bloggers, too.
But please note I am not at all trying to disparage the efforts. Its a very good effort and based on Naeem’s comment that a lot of smaller roundtable is going to come off that and I think this is a great start.
Having said that my point was to make the forum better and more effective for future and point out a larger trend in the society. When an institute like DS do these forums, they need to be extra cautious on what kind of perceptions they are creating. When DS trying to find out what young folks are thinking it would be more effective if they reach out to all spectrums.
In this blog, we don’t represent the wider forum of the society and to our credit we don’t claim that either. We raise issues and if people like it, they speak for it and if they don’t they ditch it. Much smaller goals with much smaller representation. We are honored that you compare us with DS but DS’s goal should be loftier as the premier newspaper in Bangladesh.
Good discussion, all.
April 29th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
I think it’s a little pointless to argue about which strata of society this Daily Star RoundTable representative of. I’m more put off by how self-referentianl (to DS) the meetings are. They should loosen up the format. A Question Time format would be good.
Naeem mentioned other follow-up RoundTables similar to this one. That would be a good thing, and hopefully that means widening the representation of the RTs.
I would like to see and hear more about the young professionals who are out there, working, busting a gut and living on their wits. The young engineers setting up architects offices, software companies, businesses; the burgeoning middle class, if you will. Successful people working outside of the bubble, preferably.
April 29th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Spot on Sid. These should be inclusive institutions. Besides, the DS ought to have a self-serving motive to ensure that it has a foothold in these niche markets you mention faster than the other papers!
But again, here’s my pickle: “the burgeoning middle class”? Frankly, as percentage of the total population of Dhaka, let alone BD, the middle class still isn’t the majority. So it is kind of shocking not to see any representation from lower income groups.
If there’s one HUGE hole in our civil society initiatives, it’s that it has been absolutely helpless in the face of urban poverty. This is partly because of the far greater demands from the countryside, partly because the government does not like these “shushil shomaj” (and by that they mean everybody without a BCS, military and AL/BNP background) types going around and stirring potential hornet nests in slums and other areas. As a result you have such wondrous spectacles as the slum on Gulshan Lake, right opposite BRAC university and besides a new government housing project, both of which glitter in the dark while the slums don’t get power and clean water. You can take a boatman to take you round the lake for an hour for about 80 taka I believe. It’s an eye-opening experience. (Sorry to everyone for rambling on!)
April 30th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Should we ponder on option replacing sushil samaj to Civil Right groups. These groups may represent the core issue that is faced by the society and each group with its distinctive actions and activities can be judged as whether they are really represting the causes.
April 30th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Next RT is on Education. Co-convened by Mishu Rahman (Ch i) & Zafar Sobhan (DS). The transcripts will not be reprinted, but rather they will publish a policy recommendation booklet. This is one of the practical, results-based innovations that Zafar is pushing.
We are looking to invite 2-3 people with deep working knowledge of the madrassa education system (ex students, teachers, administrators). So if you have recommendations, please post here and if you have contact info please send to admin@drishtipat.org and they can FWD to me.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:56 am
It would be worthwhle for the roundtable to engage with the findings from various donor funded research products on madrassa education, including recent ones by USAID.
The rountable should provide a response to how donor perceptions about madrassas is fuelling foreign policy responses which has impact on how Bangladehs is perceived. Very dangerous. There are obvious links to how foreign govts view security risks, madrassa education and diasporic links.
Currently here is much work going on at the Foreign/Office ( or are they called FCO?) in Dhaka around engaging with madrassa education.
I know the rountable will be concered with concerns articulated by Bangladeshis as opposed to a few donors but they still have the power to typecast develpment polict relating to Bangladesh.
Anyway - would be great if the thrust of the discussion focused on improving good quality public education - the lack of it seems to be the reason why in bangladesh and Pakistan famalies are turning to madrassas - the cheaper option in terms of formal and hidden costs.
The people in Dhaka in the know must be CAMPE.