Fri 23 Jun 2006
Will have more on this later … but here is the link for now
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June 23rd, 2006 at 6:03 pm
Its all political doesn’t need a scientis to understand this. As long as Hasina is in India and Jalil in China they need keep the attacking force and proactivist active for the upcoming movement.
Hope someday something will change in Bangladesh.
Thanks
Kawser Jamal
http://www.changeBangladesh.com
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Its unfortunate to see that lately DP blog has become a place for people to lecture and give unintelligent comments like the one above. Comments without substance, accusations without merit, argument without reasons. Replying to these are waste of time. Suggest we ignore such comments.
June 24th, 2006 at 1:57 am
I hope freedom of speech prevails everywhere and mind set should be broaden. You might be a democratic in nature organisation for your existance you need that but my views are open and I provide me contact info and email address for blogs response so no one would put finger on you. Because we walk with our spine we are not spineless like other NRB organization.
But yes its your home you control the entrance but I never broke the gate to get in.
Thanks
Kawser Jamal
http://www.changeBangladesh.cm
June 24th, 2006 at 1:58 am
I hope freedom of speech prevails everywhere and mind set should be broaden. You might be a democratic in nature organisation for your existance you need that but my views are open and I provide me contact info and email address for blogs response so no one would put finger on you. Because we walk with our spine we are not spineless like other NRB organization.
But yes its your home you control the entrance but I never broke the gate to get in.
Thanks
Kawser Jamal
http://www.changeBangladesh.cm
June 24th, 2006 at 6:54 am
Kawser Jamal, by any chance, is changebangladesh.com is officially an anti-AL venture. By all means, I support your freedom of speech, but you must identify yourself and your affiliations clearly.
Sidenotewise, I am a journalist based in Dhaka, covering the Ahmadiya issue for 3 years, never came across any AL connection here. May be you can give me some soild tips. That will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
June 24th, 2006 at 9:44 am
With these kinds of view points, how is changebangladesh claiming to be neutrallly changing the face of Bangladesh. From Garments crisit to Ahmadiya crisit Kawser Jamal is constantly blaming opposition. I am sure he blamed the opposition for the suicide bombings in the past as well. Yes, Mr. Jamal, please substantiate with references before making blanket accusations. Honestly speaking when I originally got Naeema’s email I was quite heartened to see this initiative. But ever since, you started hurling these absurd viewpoints in the name of changebangladesh, and saying things like “please send my deadbody to Mirpur”, I have no reason to believe that this is any different that the million other boktrita baj associations that exist in America — please for god’s sake, stop hurling empty threats and promises. Doing something for a change would be great.
June 24th, 2006 at 12:18 pm
Dear Tasneem and Asif
No ChangeBangladesh is not any anti
AWL or BNP organization. ChangeBangladesh is a nonpartisan,outspoken organization who speaks the true color of our political culture in Bangladesh and about its untrue color of the leaders of the political parties,which in numbers 46 of them exist in Bangladesh.
Please let me know which newspaper you are associated with and I would read more and response. In no where in my comments I mention that for 3 years unrest of Ahmadiyas issue AWl is involve but yes to create a political unrest with any upcoming issue or ongoing issues is the key weapon for them to bring movement.
In reality things are all happening in spat of time DID you find the leaders and opposition workers going to RMG unrest place and try to calm down the chaos? now you will say that’s not there job right? DID they took a step to stop this 10 years old Khurta Paijamh and tupi wearing madrasha kids why they are doing that or a round table conference with the Organization why they want to wipe out Ahmadiyas?
Asif bhai I have total respect and honour for you and your organization but only thing is we are two different org with different mission. Personally if you ask me as a normal person you are doing what is right to you and I choose the other path where I am pointing the root cause of the problem by choice.
I am not a AWL or BNP cos its me who also said the same thing for the corruption and nepotism created by ZIA dynasty and his all out commision grabbing in all business of Dhaka.
If I be democrate I was friend and buddies of all the MP Ministers and their sons and daughters and their wife and husbands in elite culture of the society,but now I am the enemey of all my own people when I raised the question of authority. To me I believe in true one god. Nothing personal brothers but I just drew the line thats all.Some one has do it so its me and I am doing it.
Thanks for all your appreciation and grudge but I will abstain from giving any freedom of speech in your blog any more and but still keep my outspoken personality handy that lacks in Bangladesh culture in free word out of bounderies and borders.
How ever I am open to new ideas and education from people like you who have experience in social change.We all can learn from each and work under one set up rules I believe in that.Again nothing personal its just the line that I drew and I am stick to it till the end of my life time.
Thanks
Kawser Jamal
http://www.changeBangladesh.com
N.B No where I said about any type of involvement of opposition or party in position about the bombing.
June 24th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Kawser Jamal is the “neutral” ( Anti-AL) person that we have become so accustomed to. It is amazing how predictable these people are.
The Ahmadiya issue is a serious one - people’s lives are in danger and a wacked out organization ( Khatme Nawabat) is totally out of control.
This Kawsar Jamal character has totally ruined any support that existed for changebangladesh.com.
June 24th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Please Salam Dhaka Bhai
I have told DP that I would be abstain from putting any arbitiry comments in this blog.
If you want please put your comments in ChangeBangladesh blogs and I would resonse the first heart bit or email me at Kawserjamal@yahoo.com.
All I got to say I am against all the political parties of Bangladesh equally againts their corrupt leadership and bad governance. I just took a stand that’s it and drew a line between right and wrong.
Thanks
Please email me I would love to answer you back and listen to you explain you what ever that is.Atleast Western education taught me how to resolve conflict and issues by dicussions with facts and logic not on the street as done by Khaledah and Hasina.
Salam
Kawser Jamal
http://www.changeBangladesh.com
June 25th, 2006 at 9:07 am
The Ahmedi bashing movement originated in Pakistan during mid 70’s by Jamat-e-Islam and supported by the power hungry monster Bhutto who ignored the judges and human rights activist and declared the Ahmedis non-Muslim – which in turn made their beliefs blasphemy against Islam. Bhutto himself was not prejudiced but supported banning Ahmediya practice to calm down the Mullahs and gain political supports.
These days cult like Khatm-e-Nabuwat preaches its congregation that wiping out the Ahmedis is an obligation for the Muslims. How can Mullahs make such claims in the name of Islam? The same way the terrorists claim that westerners are “kafirs” and should be eliminated from the face of the earth. So my question is aren’t these Mullahs terrorists of some kind?
I am NOT going to get in the discussion of whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not. It’s something between them and God. As long they are not trying to impose their beliefs on others, why not let them practice their faith any way they want? Why not agree to disagree and just move on.
I recently read an article by Kiran Malik (Brit-Pak-Ahmadi) who portrays the dire straits of the Ahmedis in Pakistan – it’s so atrocious that it reminds you of the viciousness of the Pak army on BD in ’71. And it’s sad that BD Mullahs are following suit, instigated by the Islamic fanatics and his militants.
There is no way the sufferings bestowed on the Ahmedis are justified. It’s high time the BD govt starts prosecuting the Mullahs who make open threats to Ahmedis, torture innocent civilians and get away with their crimes.
Zafa
June 26th, 2006 at 3:52 am
You can read Kiran Malik’s article cited at http://www.thedailystar.net/2006/03/05/d603051503107.htm
June 29th, 2006 at 9:56 am
Zafa says “I am NOT going to get in the discussion of whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not” alas that is the crux of the problem. They are NOT and they will live peacefully if only they stopped misleading simple souls by calling themselves Muslims. Until they accept prophet Mohammed(sm) as the final and last of the prophets people will challenge the deranged. Theyy are free to call themselves Ahmadi, Mirzai or whatever but not muslim.
June 30th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
Before jumping to conclusions about Ahmadiya’s status as Muslims or non-Muslim, maybe we ought to emphasize the fact that nowhere in their ideology do they not accept Prophet Mohammed (sm) as the final prophet; however they do believe in a revivalist who is almost (but not quite a prophet) who has come/will come sometime before qayamat.
Blanket fact: None of the Muslim sects disagree on the basic tenents of Islam (Qur’an as the word of God, the angels, the day of judgment, One Allah, and Prophet Muhammed (sm) as the seal of prophets and by that an acceptance of all prophets who have come before him). Sorry for sounding didactic!
June 30th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Martin Niemoller’s poem (for a different event but one that bears a stark resemblance to the Ahmadiya persecution) succinctly portrays why we as individuals and organizations should or not should protect their rights….
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
July 1st, 2006 at 5:49 am
I do strongly believe like Mashud Haque that the Ahamedias will be perpetually challanged until they fully accept prophet Muhammed [sm]status as the final prophet. Or they have to identify themselves as separate religion as Ahmedia/Kadiani/Mirza or whatever. They have no right to steal or rob muslims faking their ID.
I’m not an islamic scholar to put forward any fotwah, but as a ordinary conscious faithful to muslim faith, I dare sense that Ahmadia theosophy is quite far beyond the boudary of Islamic faith. We do know that when a non-muslim want to enter in islamic faith he or she must say ” I bear witness there is no god but Allah and also bear witness prophet Muhammed is his messanger.” There is no scope for anyone to call himself/herself muslim if he or she adds something with this fundamental Shaheda, like invoking Ahmad or Mirza’s name with ‘La-Ilaha illa Allah’
Every faith/ideology/laws or whatever, has its own distinct definition, despite ample chances of confusion within itsef, not trangrssing clear-cut delimitation.
Ahamedias have no right to fake muslim identity.
In any sense of morality or laws stealing somebody’s ID is subject to hatred and punishable.
One thing, I would like to mention here, many of our liberal secular muslim brothers try to indoctrinate that we should just practice our own religion, should not concern about what other people do. It’s not right thing to do. By doing that one can be so called secular muslim but not a true muslim as you’re not doing what is obligated on you. Islam is not just individual worship, it’s individual as well as social code of life. It’s highly mandatory for you to protect your religion as you protect yourselves from all sorts of evils. As you can’t claim yourselves as good parents just giving food and clothes and being disconcerned about protection your children from all sorts of harm. In the same token you can’t claim yourself a true believer in Islam if you don’t have love for and ever endeavor to protect Islam from all harms and contamination whatsoever. In so doing you’re not allowed wage pre-emptive war but if you are once harmed or attacked you must resist the evil forces whatever way they try to hunt you down, overt or covert, and whatever just tactics and means you have.
By the way, I read Kiron Malik article, it’s heart-shredding. But I will opine they are the victims of their own mischievous religious leaders, too intolerant Muslim Mullahs and Goverement’s lack of seriousness of the problem. The solution of this problem must be cooked from three different kitchens talking together, Ahmedia, Government and Muslim. The earlier, the better.
I hope, for the sake of religion and humanity all these evils will be put to end in non-violent ways.
July 3rd, 2006 at 12:58 pm
I do not agree with the scrutiny that the Ahmedis’ claim as Muslims is the core of the problem. I think the core problem is the intolerance of people and utter disregard towards human rights. It is one thing to deplore somebody’s claim as unjust, and it’s another thing to torture somebody just because their way of religious practice was not acceptable by mainstream Muslims.
I fully understand the sentiment of the followers of Muhammed (sw) and they can challenge the Ahmedis – but why physically hurt them? If they are being heretical, let God punish them on judgment day. What right does another fellow human being (created equal by God according to Muslim faith) have to take charge upon themselves and ransack their house, beat them up….??
How do you react to the members of the Nation of Islam who claim themselves Muslims, and also claim the founder of NOI Fard Muhammed to be the Mahdi or the promised Messiah. The following is extracted from their official website: (http://www.noi.org/)
**WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited “Messiah” of the Christians and the “Mahdi” of the Muslims.**
“God appeared….??” Doesn’t Mainstream Islam teach that it is heretical and blasphemous to believe that God would manifest Himself in human form (or any material form)? NOI also preaches resurrection of dead (during Keyamot) will happen mentally and not physically, and that blacks will be the first ones (!) to be resurrected. Are these not major deviations from mainstream teachings of Islam?
Why aren’t the Mullahs in U.S. rallying against the current NOI leader Luis Farrakhan? Is it because NOI is protected by U.S. constitution, i.e., the bill of rights?
You know what else is interesting? NOI openly demands segregation from all white Americans, and have their own nation of black muslims, own laws…etc. But the U.S. govt. cannot persecute them. Why? Is it because they have 400 year-old history of being oppressed by the whites?
The Muslim organizations in U.S. had made it very clear that NOI has nothing to do with Islam, but they did not claim that NOI should be abolished. Because they cannot do that, and that is my point – need to be civil to others regardless their beliefs.
The last time I checked Bangladesh was a “People’s Republic” and not an “Islamic Republic” like Iran. So on what ground the Mullahs issue fatwahs on Ahmedis??
It would have been so very nice if people of every faith just tried to understand the big picture of why God sent the prophets to earth with the messages –and not hung up on every little detail of religious doctrines.
Every major group of faith has their own qualms. Christians believe the second coming of Jesus will happen in Israel, and hence they have to preserve the land of Israel at any cost – which some people believe led to the Zionist movement. That can also explain U.S. love-sidedness towards Israel – especially these days now that the evangelical Christian faith is on big rise.
So you see this religious influence is everywhere, but in BD the govt’s lack of protection of its citizens is a slap on the face of democracy.
That’s why we comment in DP. That’s why I mentioned it is not an issue whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not. As far as human rights violation is concerned that subject is IRRELEVANT.
regards
Zafa
July 4th, 2006 at 6:32 am
Couldn’t have said it better, Zafa. I personally do not agree with a lot of the practices in many sect, but government does not have any right to say who is a true Muslim and who is not let alone individuals. See, the problem is some of us think that the notion of human rights is a Western concept and speaking for it is somewhat pro-western and anti-Islam. I never really got that. We scream for rights of Muslims when it is trampled in the Western countries but when it comes to Muslims giving rights to other religions or sects, there is a double standard.